SAS Pottery Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 I have moved to a new area that doesn't have access to a high fire kiln via a community rec center. I have found a local artist that uses a gas kiln but fires reduction work at cone 5-6. I am used to using high fire glazes - including Shino. Is there a low fire Shino glaze that has been tried and been successful? Or is there a way to increase the flux in the recipe I have to allow for the Shino to perform similarly as it did in a cone 10 environment? Thanks - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 The shino recipe I currently use at cone 6 is: Soda ash - 8 (dissolve in hot water first) EPK - 5 OM4 ball clay - 17 Neph sye - 40 Spodumene - 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Thanks Dick - I'll compare it to the SF Shino recipe that I am used to using and see what modifications you have done - I can do some test tiles of yours within this other potters kiln to see what results I get and go from there. Any other low fire reduction recipe resources you know of that I can research would be great to have as I transition further into a different firing style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preeta Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 On 8/8/2018 at 5:06 AM, Dick White said: The shino recipe I currently use at cone 6 is: Dick do you fire oxidation? where is the iron? Is this a real Shino or fake Shino? Of course my knowledge of Shino is limited to Malcolm Davis Shino (book knowledge - haven’t used it yet as don’t have access to ^10). In a week or so I can post our JCs Shino ^6 gas reduction recipe. Bland in oxidation. SAS check out an article in CAD written by Rick Malmgran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi Preeta - having your recipe would be great as to compare/contrast it with Dick's version as well as the SF Shino cone 10 I was using until moving down to the Central Coast. I too have MalcomDavis' recipe but never had a chance to mix it up and do some test fires with it. Thanks for the post and look forward to your update. - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preeta Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Scott one more thing. Cone 5 -6 is termed mid fire/range - not low. Low is earthenware so cone 04/03. And Rick Malmgren did convert cone 10 to cone 6 and he explains the reason why. I think Oct 2000 issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi back - you are correct - mid range is what I am looking for - I have a possible sharing of space in a gas kiln with a guy I recently met. He fires now at mid range - around cone 5 and sometimes at cone 6. I did find Rick Malmgran's cone 6 Shino recipe in the CAD archives. Thanks for the tip. Again would welcome your JC's recipe once you start back - Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 11 hours ago, preeta said: Dick do you fire oxidation? where is the iron? Is this a real Shino or fake Shino? Of course my knowledge of Shino is limited to Malcolm Davis Shino (book knowledge - haven’t used it yet as don’t have access to ^10). In a week or so I can post our JCs Shino ^6 gas reduction recipe. Bland in oxidation. SAS check out an article in CAD written by Rick Malmgran Preeta (and everybody) If a "shino" glaze is designed to be fired in oxidation (such as the Coyote line) it is not a real shino. (Let's not turn over that cowpie right now...) Real shinos when fired in oxidation will be pasty white as you note; reduction is a requirement. My recipe performs best on an iron-bearing clay body, but some color will be shown even on white bodies because of the lithium (from the spodumene) in the recipe. Keep those alternative recipes coming. I have access to gas kilns at school and will be testing as many varieties as I can this fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi Dick - never fired the SF Shino in an oxidation environment at my former studio - always was in reduction and at cone 10 - in re-reading Rick Malmgran's CAD article on mid-range reduction firing , he indicated that some cone 10 glazes still have some nice effects at cone 6. I have kept some of my former studio cone 10 glazes - including the SF Shino - and will try to do some test tiles to see what kind of results I can get - perhaps I won't need another Shino glaze to try - that said, I am open to trying to do a test on your glaze and Preeta's once she posts her recipe. Again, thanks for the support as I transition to a mid-range kiln arrangement. - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Mud Research Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 You could try adding more of the high sodium ingredient(s) (such as the feldspar or nephsy) in your current recipe; or just add a high sodium feldspar or frit to the same recipe. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi "MMR" - what frit # would you suggest I might use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 From my notes: Rick Malmgren ^6 Shino Soda Ash 10 Spodumene 40 Neph Sy 40 EPK 10 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi Min - yep...that's the one I got from the CAD archive article 15 mid-range glazes - thanks for your reply post! - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Scott, I too have never fired a shino piece of my own in an electric kiln. But I am the studio monkey in a community college classroom, and there is no end to the crazy stuff students have done. From that, I can tell you that if you want pasty white in the electric kiln, just use a white glaze, don't waste my good shino. But when did any young student listen to this old fart... As for a high sodium frit, Ferro 3110 is the first to come to mind, but it has some calcium in it, which is notably absent from every shino recipe I've stumbled across. The next frit that comes to mind is Fusion F644 which is basically 2/3 Na and 1/3 Si. But it is hard to come by. (I have a bag of it for my crystalline glazes, but that's a different kettle of fish.) Are you looking for carbon trapping or just the orange and white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preeta Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Dick can you get that deep orange with cone 6 Shino? And then white on top. And satin. Once I get back home next week I’ll also post a recipe from my last JC which was a fake matte white Shino Cone 5 electric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Hi Dick - As you said, I've never tried or wanted to do an electric kiln version of Shino - in the high fire versions we had in our community studio, we weren't able to try and do a Tom Coleman carbon trapping type of firing schedule. However, that said, we got some nice orange/white/black work using a B-mix clay body. Also, letting the piece sit out over a length of time allowed the Soda Ash to sit on the clay body longer and the results were stellar - some of my work just sat "waiting to be fired" over a month. It seems, for me, the clay body type and the length of time the piece is exposed to the air has an impact on whether I'd get just orange or a combo of orange, pasty white and black. I have some F3110 and can try another test tile with that addition in my SF Shino - what % would you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Preeta, is this orange enough? This is a thin coat accomplished by wetting the piece before dipping it in the glaze bucket. Thicker will be white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Scott, my recommendation on the frit is start with 0%. Seriously, try your recipes as they are and then with just higher amounts of neph sye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 OK - will do as a "first" step. As I have just moved into this Central Coast area, the new "studio" has yet to be established - thus getting my glazes unpacked and tiles made for testing will take a little while before I can create a new post with the results - once this happens, I'll be glad to post an update for you and others who are interested in this particular Shino project. Thanks for the support going forward. Stay tuned. Also, saw the photo you sent to Preeta - that was done using an electric kiln or gas? - if electric, that was a pretty close approximation to some of the work we got out of the cone 10 reduction - it's a bit more "warm" than the oranges we usually got - however, we found that the clay body used made a huge difference in the overall results we got - plus the length of time the piece was exposed to the air - I use to use Soldate 60 and usually got the orange effect or mixed with some of the pasty white - it was when I switched over to B-mix and left the piece out in the air for upwards of a month, I started to get the types of effects I was looking for - the swirly oranges, black, and pasty white combos - not bad results for a community based setting. It would be fun though to do a Tom Coleman carbon trapping firing schedule one day but that will probably have to wait to take one of his firing workshops. - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preeta Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Dick I would call that more yellow than orange. Perhaps orange is the wrong term. More of a bright red iron look. I have a bowl from a local potter with both the orange red and white. However I love yellow so I’d go for that. Is that a white claybody or does it have some iron in it. Do you do a regular firing or specific Shino firing? However I feel , quite like the Raku thought, should we even call this Shino? Maybe at least Western Shino or American Shino I want acolour Like this - where one coat is this orange red (though the colour on this one is affected by the claybody I imagine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Preeta, the color rendition in that photo is off, it was a quickie phone snap in the kitchen. The color is iron orange. Here is another pic in outdoor light, and including another bowl with the same glaze but different firing. Both clay bodies are a proprietary blend of mine that is so proprietary even I don't know what I mix in it (it's studio slurry reclaim...). It is brown, so some iron in the body. This glaze only goes orange when thin, so matte and not glossy like your picture, but I also get orange under wax brushwork on white stoneware when going for carbon trap in the firing . I get a stronger orange in the brushwork when I mix some red iron wash with the wax I will be experimenting this semester with this and other carbon trap shinos to develop both the trapping and color. One that I will be testing is a variant of a Malcolm Davis recipe with some added Red Art (and I've also heard of using Barnard Slip (higher iron than Red Art), which I have a half barrel of and nowhere to go...). Maybe this will bring color in when thicker? More to follow in the fullness of time. And yes, there is a tension out there regarding the term shino, and not just the commercial (Coyote) oxidation brushing glazes (blue? green? purple? WTF?) vs. reduction shino as we have here... but as you note, American/Western vs. traditional Japanese. Traditional Japanese potters are probably sitting over there gagging their tea that we would call this shino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Someone here a year or two ago posted a pic of a shino glaze he was working on that was fired to cone 6 in his electric kiln, but used silicon carbide for localized reduction. It was a convincing shino. Not a great shino as shino goes, but good enough that it could pass as cone 10 gas fired. So there are possibilities..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Hi Neil - thanks for the post - tried to find the reference you mentioned - no luck - at this point, I'll see what my current SF Shino will do in a cone 5-6 reduction environment using another potter's gas kiln. I can then compare the results to see if I need to modify the recipe by adding some Frit or more Neph Sy. - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamas Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Over at Glazy Clara Giorello has posted a lot of midrange shino recipes and tests with silicon carbide: https://glazy.org/u/giorello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Pottery Posted August 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Hi Tamas - went to the glazy http site you listed but all I got was a blank screen and no content - what is Glazy Clara Giorello? - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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