Pressure gauge reading

[Linda A]

Thanks for the advice.

Neil, so you say I shouldn't fire a glaze firing with the digital controller cause it won't maintain pressure because of turning on and off.

so then how would I go about manually firing this kiln. The following is what I do now:

After I light the pilot lights , I turn on the valves for the gas, (there are 3 and one at the tank). Then I  set the temp per hour, final temp and then turn on the gas via the digital controller.

Note, I have only reached 1400 F one time and realized I need much more draft.  That is now in the works by extending the chimney 8  feet.

I was attempting to fire a cone 6 glaze.

I am including a picture of the plumbing from the propane tank to the burners.

[postalpotter]

Linda,

 I just got off of work and I haven't had time to read over all the replies you have received but you now have a group of knowledgeable  people interested in your situation and they WILL see you thru.

 I do remember reading somewhere on Ward's site that he does charge by the hr. for advice if it is not on equipment that he has sold.

 I still think that a AC&Heating tech should be able to go through the plumbing and test the system but either way,  I am not sure what is the best road for you to travel.  

[Babs]

Linda Mark explains how his friends gas kiln controller works  I.e.doesn't switch gas off and on but reduces the psi or holds it steady. Check Yours does this.

He did this in your other post on your kiln.

Psst I have poured water on my freezing gas bottle at top end of firing just to eke out enough gas to do the necessary heatwork to tip the cone over the edge!!!!. When you've baby sat the kiln up over hours And it's3.30a.m.  trust me you will do this:-)))

To give up then wastes so much time and gas , and some glazes won' like it.

No absolutes in pottery unless I say so:-))))

And next day to try to fire up, outside temp regardless ,your bottle will refreeze again if pumped to same  extraction rate but earlier in the firing..

With a nine cu.ft kiln and two burners you will freeze out as your gas gets lower. Get another bottle/ cylinder or tank.

From memory not to be totally trusted now I was drawing over 5 psi to fire so that tank regulator may not allow the NEC. Psi to get up there,  all else under control.....

[Tyler Miller]

Hey Babs,

Here’s why I said what I did.  This tank is one I used on my portable forge for blacksmithing demos.  It’s a 30 lber that I could run for about 4 hours at 5 psi before it would begin to freeze.

I used the water bath technique on someone’s advice and I found that while it felt like I was getting more time, it wasn’t significant enough to really bother with.  15 minutes.  And the tank usual ended up covered in ice. Not a good risk/wear/benefit outcome

But, more importantly, when my filler found out I had done that they refused to fill the tank anymore, citing the reasons I said above.  Propane filler licenses are expensive, hard to get, and easy to lose in Canada and fillers don’t mess around.

I’ve had tanks freeze at 3:30 AM too and it’s heart breaking.  I plan my firings better now and when a tank gets low, I save it for bisqueware,  because I can fire right to near empty without freeze up. 

If it’s really an issue, there are certified propane tank heaters that do the job without messing with damaging effects of water freezing and thawing.

In ‘Straya it sounds like you don’t mess with the regulators.  In Canada, you shouldn’t mess with the tanks.

Respectfully,

Tyler

[Mark C.]

Linda I assume your controller just turns the gas down or up not on and off.This is with a electric solenoid  which is basically a butterfly valve that opens or closes inside the gas line.

[Linda A]

Hi Babbs.

My kiln definitely turns on and off.  I watched it do it for four hours till it got to a higher temp.  Then it stayed on continuously.

Thanks for all your helpful info.  I am thinking if I have a full 100 pound tank before a Cone 6 firing I should be ok with tank not freezing.

I am hoping to get at least three firings per 100 pound tank.

Linda

[Linda A]

Hello Mark.

it definitely shuts gas off and then turns it on.  Is this not the way it should work.

This turning on and off  depends on what temp per hour I have set. iIf 150 per hour shuts on and off a lot.  Higher temps either stays on for longer periods of time or stays on continuously.

[Babs]

Wierd as this will cause cold air to rush into kiln thro potholes and this would be disastrous for pots at certain temperatures esp the lower temps. So the flame is extinguished? Then fires up again? I'd say not suitable for firing pots imo. And potentially dangerous...I guess the pilot light would remain on....

Maybe search ask for firi g schedules for firing gas kiln of your capacity.

I'll look for my old log book

Fuultank yes no worries

[Linda A]

Yes the pilot light does remain on and I was watching it continually. Since this is a new to me kiln I don't trust the mechanics yet . 

The thermocouple shuts off the gas in a minute and a half.  We timed this a few times and it was consistent. The only thing we were worried about was what if the pilot went out  just before the gas was going to be coming on and it came on before the minute and a half was up.  Would I then have a kiln full of propane . yikes

[Linda A]

I am wondering if I should change the solenoid valve to one that increases and decreases the gas.  Maybe this one I have is malfunctioning.

Or..... should I just bypass the valve or take it out and just fire manually.  I could still use the controller for watching the temp rise.

The solenoid I have is no longer made.  

Dumb question but, to fire manually do I just adjust those two red valves by increasing and decreasing the gas.  

Babbs it would be much appreciated if you found your old log book.  Thanks for looking.

Linda

 

[Babs]

1.  get a gas person to see if lines can take more than the 4 your tank outlet regulator is set at.

2 if yes to that , set the t gauge to what that expert says the line can carry.

Then you take record of the temp rise to psi  increases at kiln regulator  and tune them in futur

e as you increase the psis

All the time being aware of damper use, bungs in or out etc. Have a cone situated at peep hole

Be creepy crawly until 600deg C then you can turn her up more savagely...

With my kiln I had to fire on pilot alone till 200degC as any burner lighting would whoop the kiln up too fast..

Keep asking  keep smiling.

[Linda A]

Thanks Babs

 

[Babs]

3 hours ago, Tyler Miller said:

Hey Babs,

Here’s why I said what I did.  This tank is one I used on my portable forge for blacksmithing demos.  It’s a 30 lber that I could run for about 4 hours at 5 psi before it would begin to freeze.

I used the water bath technique on someone’s advice and I found that while it felt like I was getting more time, it wasn’t significant enough to really bother with.  15 minutes.  And the tank usual ended up covered in ice. Not a good risk/wear/benefit outcome

But, more importantly, when my filler found out I had done that they refused to fill the tank anymore, citing the reasons I said above.  Propane filler licenses are expensive, hard to get, and easy to lose in Canada and fillers don’t mess around.

I’ve had tanks freeze at 3:30 AM too and it’s heart breaking.  I plan my firings better now and when a tank gets low, I save it for bisqueware,  because I can fire right to near empty without freeze up. 

If it’s really an issue, there are certified propane tank heaters that do the job without messing with damaging effects of water freezing and thawing.

In ‘Straya it sounds like you don’t mess with the regulators.  In Canada, you shouldn’t mess with the tanks.

Respectfully,

Tyler

You need more gas on hand mate.. that's a piddly gsas bottle in the scheme of kiln firing! Woildn't start my barnie with yhat number:-)))

Yes mess with regulators but at the business end of firing...the kiln.

Linda finds the strength of her lines.... she will go for it.

Until then...

Oh strongly advise another tank as Dick  wrote. Then you can just flick the switch:-))

[Babs]

Linda look at your pilot light . Is there a probe that sits just a in front and underneath the pilot light and is linked back down the line and inserts in the line between tank regulator and controller or into the controller itself? That is a safety turn off...other folk will have the correct terminology for that device.

I'm suggesting that the gas expert gets rid of your controller , inserts the thingie I just described and a new regulator to control your kiln turn up at the kiln  end of your line   after he has advised on the tank regulator and line suitability.

So now what about the thermocouple and perimeter...oh my I need a cuppa

 

[neilestrick]

No need to get rid of the controller if you can use it as just a high temp shutoff. Always good to have safety systems whenever possible. It may just be a general purpose industrial heating controller, which can be programmed any number of ways. Fire the kiln manually using the valve on the gas line, not the regulator.

[Babs]

Yeh Neil wrong terminology, valve with pressure gauge on it right down next to kiln.

Tylor  my 3 39a.ms  were planned. Hot dry place , so reach high temps into the cool of the night and can see those pretty , hungry reduction flames licking out of the peep hole and up to the flu.. and The sound of kiln is what you can go on too.

Might have to get another gas kiln....

See what you've got to look forward Too? Linda?

What's the brand/ type of controller?

[Linda A]

Thanks both of you.

I am getting excited about firing this kiln

The brand of controller is perfect fire.  Obsolete now.

[Linda A]

So I would leave each valve that goes to each burner open and control the flame with the valve that is just before that flat regulator before it branches out. Correct?

[High Bridge Pottery]

I would do it that way with the one red valve before the flat regulator then you will get an equal flame to both burners. Those valves are not the easiest to slightly adjust evenly. You will have to work out a way to open the solenoid valves and stop the controller closing them or just remove them.

 

I think the controller is working as intended its just not the best way to fire pottery. I remember an old post and somebody else had a kiln that turned burners on and off instead of starting from the lowest setting and slowly turning it up. It would not be impossible to fire that way but brings some more issues.

 

I still think you want to find out what pressure that constant regulator is outputting. I am not sure if it is for natural gas or propane. Some of the issues with only hitting 1400f could be that. Even with the chimney as is I would thing 1800f should be possible.

[Babs]

I'd exchange that valve for one which has a round  wheel "handle ", and with pressure meter attached at that spot. More sensitive adjustment possible and psi s reading right there.

ti'll try to get a photo tomorrow

[Tyler Miller]

Linda,

would you mind posting a photo of the entire kiln? I’m thinking this kiln might have some other things we should see.  

You said it’s an Estrin kiln, I’d like to see which one.  An Estrin with a perfect fire controller (to my Canadian ear) sounds like an electric model of kiln.  Which is why I’d like to see the whole thing.  There are a few things that don’t make sense about it.

My worry is that this has been a conversion job poorly executed.

Edit:  I’m convinced this is a poorly done conversion for the purposes of casting aluminum.  The kiln structure taken from an old Estrin, the burners from an old gas updraft.  The temp limitations, weird controller-solonoid setup, insufficient draft, all point to this being the case.

You can pick up an Estrin kiln for basically free in BC on Kijiji, and burner parts are always on hand at the kind of metal shop this came from.

This might be a lot of work.

[neilestrick]

Ideally, the control valve should be after the regulator.

[Linda A]

3 hours ago, Tyler Miller said:

Linda,

would you mind posting a photo of the entire kiln? I’m thinking this kiln might have some other things we should see.  

You said it’s an Estrin kiln, I’d like to see which one.  An Estrin with a perfect fire controller (to my Canadian ear) sounds like an electric model of kiln.  Which is why I’d like to see the whole thing.  There are a few things that don’t make sense about it.

My worry is that this has been a conversion job poorly executed.

Edit:  I’m convinced this is a poorly done conversion for the purposes of casting aluminum.  The kiln structure taken from an old Estrin, the burners from an old gas updraft.  The temp limitations, weird controller-solonoid setup, insufficient draft, all point to this being the case.

You can pick up an Estrin kiln for basically free in BC on Kijiji, and burner parts are always on hand at the kind of metal shop this came from.

This might be a lot of work.

Ok Tyler.

I'll send a bunch of pics in a while.

[Mark C.]

The valve should be after the regulator but thats not a fixed in stone deal.I fire manually only and having to control the flame is very easy with a good valve. I use full port ball valves-They are easy to use.Look them up on the net.

[Linda A]

5 hours ago, Babs said:

I'd exchange that valve for one which has a round  wheel "handle ", and with pressure meter attached at that spot. More sensitive adjustment possible and psi s reading right there.

ti'll try to get a photo tomorrow

Ok.  Thanks