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yappystudent

Beach sand instead of grog?

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You will find beach sand is not silica it has many other things in it. I would test -test- test ,first.

I know it no good in concrete because of the salts.

Silica from a ceramic store is like 5$ a 50# bag-its pure 

beach sand is not.

If its an experiment test it first.

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Yes I'm aware beach sand is not pure silica. I'm wondering if anyone has experience using it in place of grog. 

Salt:  I'm not sure of the content, the east side of the dunes haven't touched seawater in at least a couple? hundred years, but the salt spray gets carried on the wind especially in summer, and doesn't get washed off until it rains, heavily, in winter. I can either dig down a bit or wash and strain, probably both. 

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Yes have used wild sand.

The main contaminant was iron and calcium chunks for me. 

 It is easy to add too much, makes your clay body non-plastic and prone to crumbling rather than stretching.  

Take care to get a particle size distribution which mimics the grog you would have used.

Wouldn’t worry about the salt.  Will be almost irrelevant in the scheme of things.  Beach sand is OK but isn’t it very coarse?

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Cone 6 electric right?

why are you thinking about sand?

tried it in wood fire with clear. My intention was surface since the sand was full of dark bits.  I wanted the flex to show through.  It’s one of my favourite bowl. 

I mixed it with a cone 10 white claybody. And I threw it a little thicker. 

I didnt see any warping. 

Oh wait! Construction sand a couple of years ago in cone 5 electric. Boring did really nothing.  Slight specs seen through claybody  

Where throwing talk is concerned I would imagine it would help as long as you don’t mind the slight coloration in the claybody.  I don’t mind rough claybodies.  Grog is kinder on the hand than sand. 

Personally I would only experiment with sand if I had access to cone 10 kiln.

for me cone 6/7 is fun to play with organic matter.  Like cat litter or cat food that I have not tried yet. 

Edited by preeta

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13 hours ago, preeta said:

Cone 6 electric right?

why are you thinking about sand?

tried it in wood fire with clear. My intention was surface since the sand was full of dark bits.  I wanted the flex to show through.  It’s one of my favourite bowl. 

I mixed it with a cone 10 white claybody. And I threw it a little thicker. 

I didnt see any warping. 

Oh wait! Construction sand a couple of years ago in cone 5 electric. Boring did really nothing.  Slight specs seen through claybody  

Where throwing talk is concerned I would imagine it would help as long as you don’t mind the slight coloration in the claybody.  I don’t mind rough claybodies.  Grog is kinder on the hand than sand. 

Personally I would only experiment with sand if I had access to cone 10 kiln.

for me cone 6/7 is fun to play with organic matter.  Like cat litter or cat food that I have not tried yet. 

Correct ^6 electric. 

Because reasons. Also there's a lot of it around and I like it. 

Wait, cat food? Did you put this in raw clay or in a fired dish for a cat? 

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In theory yes Neil.  

I had access to fine grog. The sand particles was much bigger so they kept catching.  

Yes yappy.  In wet clay to see what texture it would give, and if it would stain the claybody.  

Ive tried rice in slip applied on the pot. Too sharp. I used basmati rice. Wonder if I used jasmine short grained rounder rice. But I’ve lost interest in that. 

Its been fun trying different organic material to see what stain the left behind if any and what texture.

i had fun with chicken grit.

Now I am more into trying low fire stuff and see if they turn glassy into glaze!! Like what happens to red art at ^7.  

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1 hour ago, preeta said:

In theory yes Neil.  

I had access to fine grog. The sand particles was much bigger so they kept catching.  

That makes sense. But that's a particle size issue, not a material type issue. Sand and grog definitely feel, different, though. I prefer sand, but others prefer grog.

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2 hours ago, preeta said:

In theory yes Neil.  

I had access to fine grog. The sand particles was much bigger so they kept catching.  

Yes yappy.  In wet clay to see what texture it would give, and if it would stain the claybody.  

Ive tried rice in slip applied on the pot. Too sharp. I used basmati rice. Wonder if I used jasmine short grained rounder rice. But I’ve lost interest in that. 

Its been fun trying different organic material to see what stain the left behind if any and what texture.

i had fun with chicken grit.

Now I am more into trying low fire stuff and see if they turn glassy into glaze!! Like what happens to red art at ^7.  

Interesting Preeta, I've just picked up some low fire red (R-2 from Arizona, I think) and would like to try that puddle of glass slumped in the middle of a little dish thing. Also was thinking some very textured exteriors using stuff that burns out. Plenty of cat food around. 

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Since I haven't tried it yet, I can't say I prefer it yet, but I'm a pretty good judge of when I'm going to like something. Reasons since you insist:

-It seems to me like Gaia wouldn't mind her sand used to hold something besides beer cans, shot gun shells, and dune buggies. So a religious-reclaiming Earth aspect. 

-I have a small paper bag of grog that I paid $3-$5 bucks for, and still feel stupid about it. 

-I'd like to do some post-apocalyptic figure sculpture in the Lisa Larson mid-century zeitgeist,  less warm/fuzzy, but generally that feeling. I always pictured doing it with a sandy grogged sculpture clay that still allows a lot of detail. My skill level isn't ready for this project quite yet. 

-I love exposing the grog on the surface of the pinched dishes I've been making. something about roughing up the surface of a larger-usable size dish that would ordinarily from a design standpoint be smooth is intriguing. 

-I'm currently doing a series within my current skill level of dish-shaped coral-like? lifeforms for wall sculpture. I'd like to to do these in all sorts of finishes from glassy celadons to heavily (cat food!) grogged surfaces and everything in between. Since they're meant to be sea creatures beach sand needs to be tried. 

-Trying to hash out a series of simple rustic Xmus ornaments to sell online and in stores on the coast, unless I get a better idea these will be simple flat leaves, glazed on one side, heavily grogged raw clay on the other. I'm trying to make the unglazed side more interesting so I won't feel bad about not glazing both sides (too much fuss). My location will be part of the selling point, so beach sand seems yet another small addition to make them more coastal: vine maples, alders, eucalyptus, you get the idea. 

And could probably write a novel,  I'll spare you, TY for asking. 

 

-Did I mention Sacramento was my home town when I was a kid? 

 

Edited by yappystudent

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There are many "kinds" of sand.  The geology and soil domains classify sand by particle size only without a concern for particle composition.   According to Wikipedia, any soil material between about 2 mm (largest) diameter to about 1/16 mm diameter is considered to be "sand".   The cement industry uses only "sharp sand" which is mined from large interior sand pits.   The sand at the sea shore is likely to be dominated by fragments of sea shells which will decompose on firing to burnt lime.   (Lime reacts with water vapor to form slaked lime and increases in volume significantly and will produces cracks and "lime pops" in ceramic objects, unless there is enough silica and fluxing agents in the clay to absorb the lime into the glassy phase of the fired ware.)   Desert surface sand becomes rounded from wind movements.   Hawaiian sand is mostly a mix of sea shells and lava remains.  

You would be wise to take whatever sand you plan on using and fire a small sample in a bisqued container to learn just what will happen with your additive to your clay body.   First fire it in a bisque firing, then if survival occurs, fire the sample in a glaze firing.  

LT

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Sawdust mixed in clay is a little difficult to throw but makes interesting holes and patterns when it is burned out.  I had a teacher in high school that had us collect bad florescent light bulbs and grind them up.  The people who threw with the clay with the glass in it got tiny cuts all over their hands.  I made a hand built piece with it,  the glaze it made was on the frosty side and pretty ugly.  I believed it was fired at C04.   Denice

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On 6/7/2018 at 1:23 AM, yappystudent said:

Yes I'm aware beach sand is not pure silica. I'm wondering if anyone has experience using it in place of grog. 

Salt:  I'm not sure of the content, the east side of the dunes haven't touched seawater in at least a couple? hundred years, but the salt spray gets carried on the wind especially in summer, and doesn't get washed off until it rains, heavily, in winter. I can either dig down a bit or wash and strain, probably both. 

I used it in a clay body out of desperation in 1991 when I was one of the last artists  to arrive at our studio in Latvia. A previous group had worked before the second half arrives. I was given one large lump of Chammotte ( high fire very refractory with gravel like grog, and a lump of red earthenware. I had to make pieces for our exhibition at the end of our visit, I walked down to the Baltic sea and returned with a bag of sand. Mixed it all together. Test fired it and it worked. Made several pieces for the exhibition.

Marcia

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On 6/10/2018 at 6:48 AM, Marcia Selsor said:

I used it in a clay body out od desperation in 1991 when I was one of the last artist to arrive at our studio in native. A previous group had worked before the second half arrives. I was given one large lump of Chammotte ( high fire very refractory with gravel like grog, and a lump of red earthenware. I had to make pieces for our exhibition at the end of our visit, I walked down to the Baltic sea and returned with a bag of sand. Mixed it all together. Test fired it and it worked. Made several pieces for the exhibition.

Marcia

Now you're talking. 

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If I may make a suggestion, use ingredients that have a definite provenance in your work.  In doing so, try to work around the characteristics of a material to include it in your work, OR, pick an effect and gear a material toward that effect.  But don’t do both at the same time.

Take the time to figure out what that beach sand does.  It may not work in a body, but your might find that when ball milled it produces an OK glaze component.  If you’re after that groggy effect, feldspathic chicken grit or granite fines from a local quarry will work better.

Also, be aware of local laws and policies concerning aggregate resource harvest.  In Ontario you need a license to dig sand, clay, and gravel for use, when south of the French and Mattawa rivers.  Quarries are a good work around—they’re licensed and (sometimes), know a bit about what they’re digging.  Crushed, quarried sand is brutal on the hands.  Gives great green strength, though.

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I should clarify that when I say sand, I mean silica sand, typically purchased from my clay/glaze material supplier. It's super cheap, and already proven to work. For me personally, the time spent collecting, cleaning, and testing a local sand is not worth the time. From an educational perspective, I think it's a great thing to explore. If you're trying to save money, then not so much.

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