Jump to content

Recommended Posts

OK, I've read most of the pugmill/mixer comments on why get one (or not), what size, and uses. I am retired, am not a production potter, and could do without a pugmill/mixer (at least until my hand/arm strength begins to fade).  But, at my stage in life, I enjoy using fine equipment in my hobbies and would like to get a small to medium pugmill -  not necessarily the smallest size.  Now - I need to decide on the manufacturer -  Bailey vs Peter Pugger.  I know both manufacturers make good equipment but would appreciate hearing pros and cons on these two manufacturers including features, cost, and customer service. Comments from long time owners and recent purchasers would be greatly appreciated!

Edited by Lgg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suggest the Peter Pugger VPM SS-20-it holds 45#s and will give you about 2/3 of this amount when full as some clay remains in chamber.

This machine will maintain a high resale value and you could sell it to a better mix of users than a smaller hobby only size. The price is not that much different than the smaller sizes.

The next model down is a VPM 9 that holds 25#s of clay and is just to small for anything other than hobby use.

These  are made with the best quality materials-if you bought a stainless model it will be easier to sell to porcelain users .

I am not familiar with Bailey models-I know they are also good machines and I cave no cons. I will add that Petter Pugger only makes the mixer/pugger and they have been at it the longest.I have the VPM 30 and they do not offer it in stainless as that would be best for me. I love my machine and its taken away wedging for my compromised wrist.I feel its the best machine out there for mixing and pugging .

The same thing is true with Bailey slab rollers-he makes the best as he has made them the longest-i have a Bailey electric slab roller as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it might be a question of location.  i do not know where peter puggers are made but the bailey comes from upstate new york.  

i have had a bailey since they came out with the A400  de-airing model a number of years ago.  it is great for my needs which are not as high as many others might be.  service is excellent with a simple phone call to the tech department at bailey.  i needed a new guage because mine stopped working.  i had probably done something stupid and caused that to fail.  as soon as i mentioned it, one was sent to me .  my only concern with it was the size of the nozzle and resulting pug diameter which was smaller than the venco that i had been using.  it was not a stainless model so i sold it and got the bailey.  i have adjusted to the pug size and love using the machine.  it mixes the hard and soft clays that i feed it and turns out a very compacted pug.  it is not a mixer model but it mixes everything i toss into it.

most of my work is with slabs which i use with clay cut off the boxed pugs from the supplier.  the trimmings go into a bucket for pugging later, sometimes months later.  i use the pugged clay for throwing.  i can add wet clay, slurry or water (don't tell jim bailey!) to make the clay soft enough and thoroughly wedged for throwing with my old fingers.  custom made, can't beat it!

 two  of our members have bought the mixer model and you might solicit info from them, pugaboo and dirt roads pottery.

dirt roads uses their all the time for production work.  contact sharon and ask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks MarkC! As you see from the reply above there are fans of both machines. I will have to weigh all comments I receive and eventually take my best shot. Don't think I could miss too badly with either manufacturer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing to note is where the vacuum pump is and weather that use screens-I do not know about the baileys ?

The peter pugger is at the rear of the machine for the vacuum and uses no screens.

Bailey does have excellent customer service and is east coast based

the peter pugger is west cost and I will say they have been helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark C. what should I know about the use of screens? I looked at the Bailey video showing how the screens work in their mixer/pugger which is to get a better blending of the clay.  Also, what is the significance of the location of the vacuum. It has to be in the later stage of the processing doesn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mark C. said:

One thing to note is where the vacuum pump is and weather that use screens-I do not know about the baileys ?

Vacuum pump is just in front of the screens on mine. Clay is like 1/4" spaghetti after coming through the screens then it's de-aired (for machines with vacuum) and compressed in the end two sections. 

1654105858_ScreenShot2018-05-20at7_46_10PM.png.866faf1d2816a6681b1896d4b0eff894.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mine is apart right now because it was disassembled before i went to florida in december.  i returned and scraped off the dried clay a few weeks ago.  i will take photos tomorrow of how the screen works and show that the word  "screen" is misleading.  it is about a quarter of an inch thick not wire mesh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just know the older pug mills used screens which was more cleaning and a hassel. (these where not baileys )The vacuum pick up on a Petter Pugger is in the rear empty chamber and has just about zero chance of getting clay stuck in it as the vacuum works on the whole chamber including the mixing one.

The petter pugger has a large mixer chamber then a narrow pug snout.The clay is a solid mass with no screens or air at the choke point.Air is sucked out in the entire mixing chamber and never gets to the snout.Petter puggers come from a mixer background (in the old days)then pug.They do not use screens to get the mixing done.

The Bailey is more like a traditional straight pug mill with a mixing chamber added.

I think either machine will work good.I'm just noting the differences 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the Bailey model that Min posted and love it.   Excellent customer service with help on install and replacing a small switch.  (they covered it with warranty too).    

Can't imagine doing without it.   (Probably wouldn't have bought a Pug/Mixer or the electric slab roller I have if I hadn't seen so much discussion on the forum).

Sharon Grimes

 

Edited by DirtRoads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I own a PP VPM 20SS.  For studio work I could see the advantage of having the vacuum in the nozzle. For production, the PP pugs out nearly double in the same amount of time. I talked to the Bailey people: friendly, knowledgeable, and a good reputation. I think either machine will give you good service. The question to me is: how much clay will you use and at what rate? Do you need 25lbs at a time or 45 lbs?  Ease of cleaning was one factor  for me. Either machine will give you good service.

T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use the PP VM9 and it works well. I don't find the 25# size to be a problem at all and can continually add clay as I go when pugging so its really not limiting other than maybe having to plop some more clay in more often. You mentioned you were not a production potter so I would not get anything bigger if I were you. As far as I can tell It's built just as well as the bigger models (like a tank) and takes less space.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry for the delay, life keeps getting in the way of living.

photos, first is one that shows the table because another member needed measurements.  btw, the stick with the loop of strapping is great for pulling densly packed clay out of a bucket. 2.  the oily spot was from something else, not the pugmill.  the purple table came into my life in about 1976 from a record shop titled Purple Onion.

3 shows the auger, screens and nozzle end apart.  i have only knocked the dry clay off the auger and out of the nozzle so far.  4 shows the hopper with its rubber cap and my sponge which i usually pack into the hopper below the cap to keep the clay moist.  the hopper is filled all the time once i start using the pugmill and since i use it so seldom, i find it easier to keep a wet sponge in place until i am ready to pug.  i have not yet cleaned this section.  dunking it into a bucket of water comes after knocking out the dry clay.  the handle is attached at the top behind the sponge.

next message.

bowl and pugmill 003.JPG

bowl and pugmill 006.JPG

high water and pugmill apart 011.JPG

high water and pugmill apart 013.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

photos, continued,  oops, the website says i can only load 1003.52kb so i do not know what to do.  any ideas?   if i have reached my lifetime supply can i become oldlady2 ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks so much for all the pictures and information.  I have no ideas on loading more pictures. I would think the limit applies to only one post.  About the sponge - Is the hopper supposed to maintain an air tight fit without the sponge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glazenerd, could you elaboratge abit on your comment about ease of cleaning being a factor for your  decision to go with Peter Pugger? Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no way it could be airtight.  remember, i am not using it daily, weekly or even monthly.  that is asking a lot from a well fitting rubber insert.  you can see it in the first photo, it is black and in the hopper.

the screen goes between the two pieces and is easy to put in and remove.  i once dropped a huge fender washer into the top of the pugmill because it was stuck to the end of my hand extruder.  too dopey to notice that the pugs started coming out in a strange shape, i ignored that for a long time until i cleaned the machine and found it.   it did not cause any permanent damage, it was stopped from coming out the nozzle by the screen.  

i notice that i propped up the second half of the screen so you can hardly see it is there/  see i t leaning on the visible one?

Edited by oldlady
clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mixing chamber are easier to access as they are larger than baileys. I never clean mine as it stays wet year around in my climate .I have taken it apart once as it was a used machine and had low fire clay that needed to get thrown away before I used my cone 10 bodies in it.

I used to keep a wet sponge in it by I learned I did not ever need to do that as it never dries out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very satisfied 25 lb Peter Pugger Stainless owner here, had it 8 years, no maintenance issues, good customer service in the learning phase.  I wish I had gotten it sooner, the clay out of it is fabulouse for throwing and I have NO scraps around the studio.  I chose the PP mainly for the large hopper opening , it's way easy to stuff clay in it in large hunks, and also because it is more compact in my small studio that the Bailey of the same capacity.  Also spent more $$  for the Stainless, I have NEVER emptied it and cleaned it , when I want to change clays, since I use 4 different ones, I go to the next darker or the next lighter, it's very easy to reach in and do some half hearted chamber scraping out of hunks of remaining clay, then the first log out, I open the chamber, stuff it back in and mix a bit, easy change to next clay.  I go from light buff to very dark speckeled this way, one step at a time.  I don't try to change to white, I use very little white and will toss white scarps into a chamber full of buff and it just dissappers.  larger amounts of white, I hand wedge and rebag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clay Lover: Thanks for the good information and recommendation which makes my decision more difficult since I have been leaning toward the Bailey MSV-25T.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Questions:

Does the Peter Pugger VPM9 SS Hopper have to be full to start the pugging operation? Does the Bailey MSV25 SS?

Can both machines maintain moist clay indefinitely in the mixing and pugging chambers?

Does pitting of the aluminum machines affect the color of pugged clay? (At least one comment said dark residue gets in white stoneware.)

Does pitting mean particles can be pugged out with the clay?

Any Comments on differences in the machines?  (see below)

Bailey 1 HP     vs     PP .75HP

Bailey pug rate of 900 Lbs/hr    vs     PP 500 Lbs/hr

Bailey vac pump 1/3 HP     vs     PP .5 HP

Bailey has shredder plates    vs    PP no plates.

Bailey pug size 3.25"     vs     PP 3.0"

Bailey machine weight 330 Lbs     vs     PP 220 Lbs

Bailey "Warranty" 3 years     vs     PP 2 year "Guarantee"

Cost difference (per mfr websites) from Bailey Aluminum to Stainless is $1,290. Worth it?

Total difference in price from least expensive (Bailey MSV25-T) to most expensive (PP VPM9 SS) is $1,349

(Dimensions of machines are of no concern to me. Bailey is 21" longer.)

(Both mfrs are at opposite ends of the country from me.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya know I think you are over thinking this a bit. You will seriously be happy with either of these machines. I'd just pick one and move on. I know the cost makes it seem like a huge decision but both of the have been around forever, are built to last and the two manufacturers have solid reps in the industry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.