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Porcelain vs white stoneware coated w/ porcelain

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Sorry I didn't mean to sound like you said that. I just meant that I have thrown some of my biggest pots with porcelain, I keep going back to the word difficult. I don't think it's the right word for the description. I think the right word is different to describe porcelain throwing. It isn't more difficult, it's just slightly different.

I don't claim to know more about porcelain than you Mark that is for sure, you have thrown more clay than I will throw in my entire lifetime. Just wanted to inspire a little hope in Doc to give it a shot.

Edited by Joseph F

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There is a  word used to describe clay properties, from the 40-80's: but since forgotten. "extensibility" was used to describe how far a clay body would extend without rupturing or collapsing. It is the physical properties of fireclay and ball clay, as compared to kaolin that give stoneware or porcelain their throwing properties. You can formulate porcelain to be firmer, or stoneware softer.

now back to my coffee, I feel an information dump coming on.

nerd

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On 19/02/2018 at 3:37 AM, Joseph F said:

, I keep going back to the word difficult. I don't think it's the right word for the description. I think the right word is different to describe porcelain throwing. It isn't more difficult, it's just slightly different.

I agree with you Joseph. It is different. For me the lack of grog makes a huge difference because I am still not a confident thrower. Not just porcelain but even b-mix without grog involves a whole different learning curve. 

Ultimately I discovered I preferred iron body clay with white slip because our school fires ^7 gas and clay reduction plays an important role in my surface thoughts.  And also that I really didn’t care much for the porcelain look. I much prefer buncheong over porcelain.  

So doc I’d definitely encourage you to try porcelain - just to experiment. Not just with throwing but how differently you also have to relearn glaze application.  And I will admit  3 bags of porcelain improved my throwing abilities. Just like a student driver who finally had to get on the freeway. 

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Just now, docweathers said:

I will give porcelain a try....since i am an experimenter at heart.  Once I successfully  make something, I rarely make another.  It is more fun to stretch my skills in another direction. 

Don't ever go into glaze making.... :ph34r:

You are me are a lot the same. I can make something I really love, and I never make another because why do it again? What is next? One of the reasons I decided I would probably never be a production potter.

 

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11 minutes ago, Joseph F said:

Don't ever go into glaze making.... :ph34r:  Huh??

 I have never used a commercial glaze. I make all of my own glazes... sometimes to my delight and sometimes to my  horror.  I think I  have test tile fetish.   in my short pottery adventure,  I have done well over 1000.   My agenda is not to make pretty pots, but to learn how to make prettier pots.   

 

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( I can make something I really love, and I never make another because why do it again? What is next? One of the reasons I decided I would probably never be a production potter.)

The reason is to bring that same joy you felt to other humans who use that something special pot you made. They then want the next item you make and on and on so it builds.

No matter what you make the Chinese did  it better a thousand years ago so it goes.

I just got a few e-mails from customers explaining how they feel about the pots I sent them and  the joy they bring-thats the reason to make some more mugs right there.at least for me.

Can I ever make a better mug  after 30,000 mugs  or 50,000 well I guess theoretically yes but why try-the reason is the customer for me.

 

Now back to porcelains I do not think they are that different or harder to manage but its not as easy as stonewares for begins to get the hang of. With stone ware you can make any mistakes and end up with a pot like use to much water to center and throw-with porcelains this is just not as forgiving. Thats really the only reason I suggested stoneware.

My biggest flaw is thinking  back in beginners experience as I'm not a teacher an in my professional life really do not interface with beginners that much so its harder to recall being a biginner.

I have taught a little as volunteering over the years and I tend to try to keep it simple. Porcelain for most is a later in clay deal as its less forgiving in most areas .

In real life I know the limits  of clays and have tested them. They are now what I was taught but there are limits. One of the reasons I like porcelain is its dry capabilities and the way glazes look on the surfaces-the other reasons is the strength and non -chip nature of the clay has its so dense.I can throw a pot in the am trim in the nom and fire it that night if the solar conditions(sun) is just right(summertime).

Its never been about cost for me as thats so little overall as clay is cheap.

Doc if you are still reading this thread get some Daves Porcelain (laguna) as it throw super easy or some Coleman Porcelain(ardvark)

and give it a try.

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OT...

Me too.  Me too fellow experimentor!!!!

The thing that I just love about pottery is drawing in the air. I make certain forms over and over again because there are tiny differences that I need to hash out. I feel I truly live when at the wheel and the rest of the time I am waiting to get back on the wheel because my next pot appears in the middle of the present I am throwing  and I have yet to throw it.

This semester I swore no more bowls or cups. Alas I’d forgotten about empty bowls. And then my 15 year old brought up our search for our perfect mug. It’s that one variation that keeps me going.  After 3 years I still find bowls and cups still very exciting. But this semester is about the bottle.

But yes I dislike repetition- esp with glazing - usually. Which is why I love the gas kiln. Glazing for me is an emotional response to the pot. Is this going to be a calm pot or is it asking for a punch. Does it need a wax resist drawing? Which is why it is super exhaustive for me. I can easily spend 8 hours at the wheel and still be energised. But 2 hours glazing and I am completely drained.  Even if I’ve decided before hand  the final glaze is chosen when I pick up the pot. And then access to a gas kiln... I can get so many variations just out of two glazes.  The difference between vertical and horizontal forms. 

 

 

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My problem in trying various porcelains is where I live, Spokane Washington. There are no major suppliers here and shipping, particularly small amounts, of clay is quite ridiculous. It can easily cost more than the clay itself.  Being the cheapie I am,  that is a consideration. Some people think I'm so tight,  I squeaked when I walk:mellow:.  

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4 hours ago, docweathers said:

My problem in trying various porcelains is where I live, Spokane Washington. There are no major suppliers here and shipping, particularly small amounts, of clay is quite ridiculous. It can easily cost more than the clay itself.  Being the cheapie I am,  that is a consideration. Some people think I'm so tight,  I squeaked when I walk:mellow:.  

If this is the case then you might just decide to be happy with the glaze colors on stoneware and move on. I don't think it is worth the price to ship clay at all. = (

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I think I will stick to stoneware. I just checked the shrinkage values of  porcelains vs my G mix/6.. Porcelain shrinks a lot less so my glaze would not fit. At this stage, I am not  going to go  through the  ritual of modifying my glazes.

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Doc,

This person who I know makes his own clays-I do not recall if he has any midrange but his high fire porcelain is great. He is located in your state.Maybe near you??? He mails the clay in flat rate boxes for cheap .

I have used the porcelain at cone 10 -it throws well and is great in wood fires and salt fires or reduction.

http://www.wendtpottery.com

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