How do you feel about being called talented?

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, liambesaw said:

I just avoid it all by not being talented 

Your so incite-full .........................um insightful  that is.

[liambesaw]

I do think it's very slightly offensive to call someone talented if they've put in a lot of work to get to the point they are.  It's like saying oh you're so lucky you were blessed with these skills, when really you worked at developing the skills the good ole fashioned way.  Ya know, trial and error, success and failure.  Some people just see the lesson in the disappointment better.

[JeffK]

Someone who has not put in the work can't truly understand the difference between talent and skill. They see them as one and the same. All they see, care about, and comprehend is the finished work and not the years, the frustrations, the successes - and failures - behind them. It's unimportant to them. If they admire, use, and gain some joy in what I produce, then I'm quite happy with that. No matter what they call it. If other members of our community appreciate both the talent and the skills - with the understanding of the difference - that makes me happier still.

I do believe we are born with certain talents - we just have to find out where they fit best. And then do the work and gain the skills. The skills to get to where I am now or in the future are based upon my talents, curiosities and propensities, and often obsessiveness, for certain work. I don't take "talent" as an insult. Just as an interpretation of what I do and what I offer.

Having spent nearly four decades in the custom packaging industry, I've been asked what, to me, was most important. I answered, quite honestly, when I handed the finished piece to the client and watched their eyes light up.

And an "attaboy" here and there from my peers didn't hurt.

- Jeff

[liambesaw]

I agree, but sometimes people act like this skill was handed to you. Everyone has something they "nerd out" over, so I try to explain it that way.  You know how you nerd out over game of thrones and want to know every and anything about it and the actors and the books and you have a map of westeros in your living room?  Well I'm that way with clay, it doesn't just happen, I just happened to nerd out over something that produces an end result.

I don't believe people are born with anything, but I do believe that every decision after birth opens windows that lead to an eventual talent.  

And by very slightly offensive I meant it, I know what people mean by "oh wow, you're so talented" (not something I hear lol), but i do think it's important to differentiate between talent and skill because they are two very different philosophies.  People think if they're not "born with it" that they'll never be good.  This is dangerous thinking that is a self-imposed psychological limit.  Don't confuse talent and skill, even talented people have to work to gain skill.  It could be that they've laid some of that work earlier in life in some unrelated activity, but the work was still there.

Anyway, I'm just waxing poetic here now, we essentially agree about everything at a base level.

[Bill Kielb]

32 minutes ago, JeffK said:

Someone who has not put in the work can't truly understand the difference between talent and skill. They see them as one and the same. All they see, care about, and comprehend is the finished work and not the years, the frustrations, the successes - and failures - behind them. It's unimportant to them. If they admire, use, and gain some joy in what I produce, then I'm quite happy with that. No matter what they call it. If other members of our community appreciate both the talent and the skills - with the understanding of the difference - that makes me happier still.

I do believe we are born with certain talents - we just have to find out where they fit best. And then do the work and gain the skills. The skills to get to where I am now or in the future are based upon my talents, curiosities and propensities, and often obsessiveness, for certain work. I don't take "talent" as an insult. Just as an interpretation of what I do and what I offer.

Having spent nearly four decades in the custom packaging industry, I've been asked what, to me, was most important. I answered, quite honestly, when I handed the finished piece to the client and watched their eyes light up.

And an "attaboy" here and there from my peers didn't hurt.

- Jeff

I mostly agree and still feel it is a compliment of sorts.  In  my view though I see them as choosing to truly not understand ....... whether wittingly or not. I believe it is most often a feel good choice for them to compliment in this fashion in most but not necessarily all cases.

That is  likely when  the compliment appears to be perceived as a bit backhanded or dismissive of the effort,

[JohnnyK]

12 hours ago, JeffK said:

I do believe we are born with certain talents - we just have to find out where they fit best. And then do the work and gain the skills. The skills to get to where I am now or in the future are based upon my talents, curiosities and propensities, and often obsessiveness, for certain work. I don't take "talent" as an insult. Just as an interpretation of what I do and what I offer.

My feeling is..."If you got it, flaunt it"...No brag, just fact".  As I grew up and matured, I found that I had certain innate skills or abilities or talent to accomplish certain things. I work well with my hands. I spent the majority of my life making or fixing things in all the myriad jobs I had. I'm also a "talented" photographer with a good eye for composition. I am a hobby farmer and grow great veggies , making money selling them. I'm also a pretty decent potter and am selling a lot of what I make. I have the ability to look at many different kinds of problems and have the "talent" to visualize the solutions... or is it "skill"? Some folks say I'm talented...most of the time it is because I can do what they can't. Others say it's skill...for the same reason. I also find that folks that have similar skills or talents appreciate what I can do and know the level of effort it takes to get to where I am. So if someone says I'm talented, I say "Thanks!" and accept it as a compliment or accept their money for what I have provided them...

JohnnyK

[Pres]

Talented as JohnnyK alludes to is not exclusive to the arts and crafts, but in every category of endeavor out there. It is also interesting to note that often one may be talented in one aspect of a field, and not in another. For example, I may be able to teach drawing and draw reasonably well, but am not talented. I handbuild well, but do not excel at it, but feel that I am most gifted at throwing.

I found often that students would take an art class as a filler, knowing they were not gifted, but a few classes later found that they had found some aspect of art they were talented at. This is one of the reasons I believe very strongly that the arts, and crafts are extremely important in HS as it allows on the opportunity to discover a gift or talent early and thus nurture it with further study in either college or some other venue. This to me includes the traditional "industrial arts, performing arts and the others we have mentioned.

 

best,

Pres

[JeffK]

@JohnnyK - we've walked the same roads...except for the farming part. But I understand the "hand work" and the ability to see underlying structure.

Got a great book you might be interested in - Shop Class as Soulcraft by Matthew B. Crawford. I think you'll enjoy it.

He had also written an essay for The New Atlantis that preceded the book - https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-soulcraft

- Jeff

[JMac]

On 6/22/2019 at 9:00 PM, LeeU said:

Welcome to the forums.  Why does it make you not want to go when you "really love going"? Plus you said you appreciate it--do you really, or don't you, really? That may be important  to know. 

Thanks for the welcome.

I talked my wife into joining the art center for classes as well...but at a different day/time than me. Last night we sat next to each other in the garage and worked on our separate projects for about an hour or so. We never really talked to each other while working, but it was one of the most enjoyable times I've had. I like being around other people while doing this, but for some reason the compliments kind of kill it.

Here's one example. I brought back a Jar I recently made since one of the women was disappointed about not seeing it finished when I took it home. When I took it back in, they all loved it and started with  a few compliments. I looked over at one of the guys sitting there next to his finished pieces (they're amazing)...and just felt weird. We're not in the same league and we both know it, so I think the compliment are just a bit much and not earned at this point.

 

[Pres]

There are times when a complement may seem to point out your faults, but really most of the time, when people see something in a class situation, or a group that meets often, a different story.  Many times in my classroom, I heard complements from those that were obviously more gifted than others from their work, to others. I came to realize that it was not the about the product as a whole, but more about the amount of growth the product entailed. At the same time, I have been overwhelmed by the knowledge, skill and creativity that someone like Marcia Selsor exhibits in her work, but also feel that in areas where I tend to work I also can excel. So complements have to be taken in with the feeling behind them, if the intention is honest. . . . . ..love it!

 

 

best,

Pres

[JeffK]

As @Pres said " it was not the about the product as a whole, but more about the amount of growth the product entailed". If you look back at when/how you started, I'm sure you had your trouble even centering.  Then opening, then raising walls, then forming, trimming, firing, glazing, etc. Each one of those steps is your success, your gaining of knowledge, your growth as a ceramicist and artist. This is hard work at times and there's no reason to minimize it.

There will always be someone who does different work than you, at a higher level of work than you. Those are your teachers and mentors, actively or passively. So imagine now someone walking into the studio for the first time and seeing you at the wheel centering and raising walls fluidly and instinctively and so giving them a goal to reach. Imagine them finally raising their first cylinder after weeks of work and practice. And imagine you walking over to them and saying something like "Great job - now you've got it!" You've just raised the bar for them with incentive and good words to keep them going. And I bet it makes you feel good as well to say it.

Every day is a school day - and no reason not to accept a compliment for what it is. Simply a way of someone expressing their gratitude for having you provide your work for them to see and enjoy.

- Jeff

[Denice]

When someone tells me that they are envious of my talent  I thank them and then tell them that everyone has a hidden talent,  they just have to find it.  I had one woman tell me she had no talent,  I asked her what she did for a living.   She told me she was floral arranger,  I told her she had to have a lot of artistic talent to be a floral arranger.  She walked away with a smile and she was gloomy  before we talked.  When we were building our house we watched  framers,  electricians and plumbers do their jobs with skill and a artistic flare.   Our electrical box in our garage is often call a thing of beauty by my husbands friends when they are working on cars.   Denice