clay lover Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Many thoughtful responses, thanks, all. Trina, when you have open studio, how do you manage to not have more people show up that you have space for? I don't want to get into managing a different sort of scheduling. I had thought about that approach, 'these are the open days come as many or as few as you want, every one pays the same.' Is that an easier approach than pay for what you use, time wise? These are people I know and are trustworthy. Pres, I'm like you in that I must teach. I get great rewards from my students lighting up at a new idea, and enjoy their enthusiasm. I have been doing lessons for 3 years and my students have pushed me in directions I would not have taken and alwys present some sort of project that takes all my clay experience and then some to answer. Trina, you have asked some good questions. No, I don't want a school. When I started the classes I need to pay for my studio and it was a good way to have income. Now I have achieved that and am planning forward. I think my over all goal, besides that of needing to teach what I love, is to have good company in the studio, some of the time, some non sales generated income and to develope an appreciation for the clay arts in my community. There are very few potters near me. I have 2 students now that are ready and have the personality to come in, choose their projects, and work independently. Another question about pricing. I had a set price for the 5 day workshops, came out to $24 for a 3 hour session. What is reasonable to charge for no prepped clay and no planned lesson but assistance when needed and all tools, glazes and materials ? They would have to buy their clay from me, I have been including it, They would be doing clean up and dealing with their own clay and reclaim as they choose. I appreciate more experienced potters helping me work this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teardrop Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm guessing that there are many facilities such as this one around the country that rent studio time//hold classes/etc. and are open to the public. Hopefully some of the info on this page will be pertinent for you, clay lover. https://www.alpineartscenter.org/classes-workshops-drop-ins/adult We broke down the cost of our college classes...it works out to about $20 per week for class and unfettered (almost) access to the studio. ($282 for the Semester course, no credit..no grade ala a "Lifelong Learning program"). Such is why we keep signing up! good luck in your endeavor teardrop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 That is really cheap! WOW! Our students pay of $95 for a lab fee for each studio art class plus university fees for tuition, technology, athletics and use of the rec center. I think it is expensive but the lab fee must stretch to cover the operations of the ceramics facility from kiln shelves, glaze chemical, clay, sieves, coils, etc. plus the shipping to get it down here from Austin to the most South tip of Texas. I am doing the maintenance too. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trina Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Many thoughtful responses, thanks, all. Trina, when you have open studio, how do you manage to not have more people show up that you have space for? I don't want to get into managing a different sort of scheduling. I had thought about that approach, 'these are the open days come as many or as few as you want, every one pays the same.' Is that an easier approach than pay for what you use, time wise? These are people I know and are trustworthy. Pres, I'm like you in that I must teach. I get great rewards from my students lighting up at a new idea, and enjoy their enthusiasm. I have been doing lessons for 3 years and my students have pushed me in directions I would not have taken and alwys present some sort of project that takes all my clay experience and then some to answer. Trina, you have asked some good questions. No, I don't want a school. When I started the classes I need to pay for my studio and it was a good way to have income. Now I have achieved that and am planning forward. I think my over all goal, besides that of needing to teach what I love, is to have good company in the studio, some of the time, some non sales generated income and to develope an appreciation for the clay arts in my community. There are very few potters near me. I have 2 students now that are ready and have the personality to come in, choose their projects, and work independently. just screwed up my answer and lost it... will try again....trina Another question about pricing. I had a set price for the 5 day workshops, came out to $24 for a 3 hour session. What is reasonable to charge for no prepped clay and no planned lesson but assistance when needed and all tools, glazes and materials ? They would have to buy their clay from me, I have been including it, They would be doing clean up and dealing with their own clay and reclaim as they choose. I appreciate more experienced potters helping me work this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trina Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Many thoughtful responses, thanks, all. Trina, when you have open studio, how do you manage to not have more people show up that you have space for? I don't want to get into managing a different sort of scheduling. I had thought about that approach, 'these are the open days come as many or as few as you want, every one pays the same.' Is that an easier approach than pay for what you use, time wise? These are people I know and are trustworthy. Pres, I'm like you in that I must teach. I get great rewards from my students lighting up at a new idea, and enjoy their enthusiasm. I have been doing lessons for 3 years and my students have pushed me in directions I would not have taken and alwys present some sort of project that takes all my clay experience and then some to answer. Trina, you have asked some good questions. No, I don't want a school. When I started the classes I need to pay for my studio and it was a good way to have income. Now I have achieved that and am planning forward. I think my over all goal, besides that of needing to teach what I love, is to have good company in the studio, some of the time, some non sales generated income and to develope an appreciation for the clay arts in my community. There are very few potters near me. I have 2 students now that are ready and have the personality to come in, choose their projects, and work independently. just screwed up my answer and lost it... will try again....trina Another question about pricing. I had a set price for the 5 day workshops, came out to $24 for a 3 hour session. What is reasonable to charge for no prepped clay and no planned lesson but assistance when needed and all tools, glazes and materials ? They would have to buy their clay from me, I have been including it, They would be doing clean up and dealing with their own clay and reclaim as they choose. I appreciate more experienced potters helping me work this out. OK hi again, let me see if it works this time. OK I would say that you need a business plan, to figure out what you should be charging. I never charge double for the clay with the expectation that that covers the cost for anything else. I know from experience that i use 12kg of unprepared clay per session. I know through experience what that means in terms of kiln volume (as I know what they are making and we normally have a max size for projects) and my firing schedule (kiln wear and tear costs and electicity). Take an inventory of your studio and then figure out what it will cost each month to keep the levels up. I then know I need to spent xxx Euros in material costs every month. Write down what your expenses are. Think of everything that costs you money. So rent, electric, materials, material wear and tear, starting costs (tools that you own and use tables equipment ect ect) accountancy fees, taxes, Do you supply coffees and cake... toilet paper cleaning supplies : just whatever costs you write down. Then divide that amount with the maxium amount of students /other artists you can cope with. If your goal is to have money to pay for your studio that covers it. Then your own work is where you start to make a living.... don't confuse this with profit profit comes way way long time later... As my studio is open twice a week to potters, I charge by the month so I know the number that I will have more or less (but don't worry too much about it as they have then paid) But they themselves have arranged to come either on Monday or Wednesday. Sometimes a Monday person will come on a Wednesday but as I have a large studio and we can accomodate it. Rarely /nearly never do I have everyone at once, communicate and students communicate back. Really it sounds to me like you should convince your two students to join your studio as fellow artisits and share the expenses if that doesnt cramp you personally too much. I don't know if anything that I wrote helps you but that has been my personal experience....just ask if you wanna know more. Trina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoKa Kath Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi folks. First posting from me; thought I'd chime in with an idea on the "what if they all turn up at once" question. How about using technology to manage that? Set up a Google calendar for each workstation that can be shared with each studio user (they get access as part of their 'membership' benefits). Then they can all see when a slot is available to come in and work. If someone books a slot and then doesn't turn up, they lose one of their set sessions for the month. If they book and cancel at short notice (say less than 24 hours in advance) and this results in the slot not being used or denying someone else an opportunity to use it, decide on a forfeit such as "three strikes and you're out" where they lose a session on third strike or something between that and immediately losing a session. Loving this forum and can't believe I didn't spot it before. I used to be on the Clayart list although a lot of it went over my head, but I picked up some knowledge that has stayed with me. Nice to see some familiar names here from that discussion mailing list. Kath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanB Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 This is an off shoot from another thread that developed a different direction due to comments about someone having problems selling work from their college studio and 'policies'. Trina suggested a new thread on this and related issues and I agree, so here it it. I teach from my home studio and also do my own work there and It would be great to know how others are doing this and managing the different things that come up. Such as; Pricing of class time management of student personalities Separating your work , glazes, materials from student's work, Use of space available My first question, one I am trying to answer for myself,. My students always want to do bigger and more complex pieces that they are really ready for. How do I rein them in without discouraging them? In the studio shelving, they see large forms, moulds, that I use for my sale pieces and want to use them. Problem is, the pieces are to big for them to manage, and I also don't want to make everything I use for my sales line to be used by my students to produces pieces that would be similar but not so well done as the one's I make for the local market. Same form, same glaze, ect. I don't have room to separate everything and still be able to do my work in the same studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanB Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi, My studio is open only two mornings a week to potters (and one morning to painters) I charge the potters a monthly fee and let them come any 4 times in the month. I figure the same thing happens in a fitness studio or other group that charges by the month whether you come or not. It also means that at the beginning of each month I know where I stand. I only allow my very regular students to pay per time if they are travelling or have some other reason why they cannot attend. However then I charge more pro rata. If you aren't sure about your costs and what to charge, you must must and I mean it in the nicest way must figure it out. You cannot subsidize no shows and people who are not as committed as others. If that scares you because you think that you will lose people, well maybe you will but if you treat it like a business then you need to advertise and you will get others. No shows and empty seats cost, not only that they don't come but they take up shelve space and impead the regs. I also charge for extra other classes, mold making ect unless the group decides that they all want to learn one thing in a lesson. The most important thing to figure out is what your intention is. Do you want a school? Do you want enough students so you can spend the rest of your time producing for yourself? Do you want to share space with one or more other artists and not teach? Do you only want to work for yourself? Are you good enough to? Ect ect I would be more than happy to share all my mistakes with you. It is a hard battle so at least know what you want. Trina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmingei Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I would like to jump in to this discussion and respond to Claylover's questions above: I have been teaching in my studio for nearly 25 years and am about to expand to a commercial building and employ other artist-potters to teach with me. I started off with just 4 students per class and a couple of classes per week, now it is 7 students per class and in my new studio I will be able to have 12 to a class, two classes running concurrently and around the clock. It used to simply provide a stable cash flow and supplement to my income from my ceramic work but it took over a few years ago and even though I still consider myself a potter first and exhibit widely, I am now also firmly attached to my identity as a teacher. My impending expansion is a result of having a large waiting list and not being able to satisfy demand. My first degree was Art Education (specialising in Ceramics) and I followed that with 5 years of trad apprenticeship-style training in Australia and Japan and then an MA in Ceramics. I take my teaching very seriously and have taught in tertiary institutions, a secondary school and many guest residencies and workshops but my studio classes are the most rewarding and I value them and my students enormously. They choose me! My educational philosophy guides my methodology. It is all about recognising the individual pathway but guiding students within a strong skill-based structure. Rules are only helpful at first - then they are meant to be broken! It is a pleasure to be able to help my students reach their goals and open the world of ceramics to them and I know I can pass on some of the hard-earned lessons from my teachers that I fear will die if they are not passed on. Teaching is therefore my duty as well. But I never forget I am privileged to be able to teach and I also learn from my students all the time. I always price my time according to standard business principles: hours worked(including packing kilns) x price per hour desired (my price per hour has gone up over the years as I have increased in self-confidence and realise I provide a pretty unique product but it is still on a par with other classes and I wouldn't want to charge a lot more). I average my overheads and materials and incorporate these costs into the class fee. (I don't like fiddling around with weighing) I have an amount of work that I consider reasonable and if advanced students exceed this amount they are given the choice to either keep and pay a flat extra firing charge or re-cycle the clay. I always encourage students to aim high and value the process of learning above the product. I do have some terms and conditions that students sign in their enrolment form. This includes not selling their work commercially. When students are good enough to sell their work commercially I tell them, encourage them, and suggest they move on and get their own studio. They are not students any more - even though we are all learning all our lives - they have to take responsibility for their whole production if they want to sell commercially. I also don't want any repercussions on my insurance if something goes wrong with their work! Student personalities: I've hardly ever had any problems. I respect and value everyone and follow some simple humanistic principles. There have been times when some students have been challenging but honestly, compared to a class of Year 9 or 10 kids it is nothing! That's where my teacher training has been really helpful! I also recognise that there are as many different reasons for coming to my classes as there are students and I don't push a particular line. I am excited by open discussions about art and ceramics and I think my students respond to my passion and to being treated with equal respect and integrity. Separation of work: that's another reason I am expanding! There is no more space at home and I am very much looking forward to having my home studio back to myself! I have a large damp cupboard and a large storage rack for students that is separate from my own. Both can fit about 20 student's work (on 1.2m long boards) but above that it gets pretty tight. I also have to continually wrap student's work when leather-hard to stall it from drying. This is a real hassel (suggestions welcome please!!) The only comment I would make is that students do value being in a professional artist's studio and seeing work of a (hopefully) higher standard around to inspire them. The opportunity to use my work as teaching resources, ie to illustrate different aspects of form or surface, sometimes works in my favour as a "soft-sell" whereby the students end up purchasing a piece! It is a nice outcome and I always give them a discount! Space: I have an area for classes within my studio, about 18m2, and the wheels are a fold-up style and pushed under the tables when not in use. I can expand into that space when I'm working on my own work in between classes but then have to move stuff back when its class time. It is a hassel but its the downside of teaching in my studio. Glazing is only done in the final lesson of the term (8-week term) so wheels are packed away, glazes brought out onto the tables and the whole cycle is finished with a firing that I do for them. I hope this is helpful. I have a question for anyone in a similar situation: given I will have the potential for a few hundred students in my new studio, space is going to be even more of a premium! Does anyone have any suggestions for good storage solutions for work in between classes that allows work to dry slowly (over a week) ??? It must be well-insulated for that reason. I've been looking at loads of shelving solutions online and not found anything insulating..... Thanks for this forum site, happy potting and happy 2012! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I do have some terms and conditions that students sign in their enrolment form. This includes not selling their work commercially. When students are good enough to sell their work commercially I tell them... I also don't want any repercussions on my insurance if something goes wrong with their work! I get the part about insurance concerns, but as a student, I'll decide for myself when and if I want to sell a piece. I don't need anyone else's permission to do so. I'm fortunate to have my own wheel now, and I have access to community studio kilns for a reasonable cost. I'm much more critical of my own work than anyone else. As a successful silversmith for many years, I can tell when something is salable, and frankly my standards are higher than many "professional" potters I have known. I appreciate that you must be going that extra mile, to feel that you don't have problems with "student personalities", I think that takes a really special mindset to work in practice. But I wouldn't give up my right to dispose of the products of my labors as *I* see fit. This would be an insurmountable obstacle for me, though clearly it doesn't seem to be for a majority of your students. I may be a student, but I am not a supplicant, and I just would not give up my right to control the disposition of my work when and as I choose. I'm a long way from trying to sell anything I make, but that is my decision to make, and no one else's (other, of course, than any hypothetical buyers). "I don't need you to remind me of my age. I have a bladder to do that for me." -- Stephen Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growin' Granny Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 .... Separation of work: that's another reason I am expanding! There is no more space at home and I am very much looking forward to having my home studio back to myself! I have a large damp cupboard and a large storage rack for students that is separate from my own. Both can fit about 20 student's work (on 1.2m long boards) but above that it gets pretty tight. I also have to continually wrap student's work when leather-hard to stall it from drying. This is a real hassel (suggestions welcome please!!) ...snip.... During the winter I work in an outdoor studio in the desert and we use old, non-functional refrigerators to store work in progress and slow down drying on completed work. In especially difficult weather when work is drying too quickly even while wrapped in plastic in the refrigerators, we put a wet towel into the refrigerator to increase humidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trina Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I do have some terms and conditions that students sign in their enrolment form. This includes not selling their work commercially. When students are good enough to sell their work commercially I tell them... I also don't want any repercussions on my insurance if something goes wrong with their work! I get the part about insurance concerns, but as a student, I'll decide for myself when and if I want to sell a piece. I don't need anyone else's permission to do so. I'm fortunate to have my own wheel now, and I have access to community studio kilns for a reasonable cost. I'm much more critical of my own work than anyone else. As a successful silversmith for many years, I can tell when something is salable, and frankly my standards are higher than many "professional" potters I have known. I appreciate that you must be going that extra mile, to feel that you don't have problems with "student personalities", I think that takes a really special mindset to work in practice. But I wouldn't give up my right to dispose of the products of my labors as *I* see fit. This would be an insurmountable obstacle for me, though clearly it doesn't seem to be for a majority of your students. I may be a student, but I am not a supplicant, and I just would not give up my right to control the disposition of my work when and as I choose. I'm a long way from trying to sell anything I make, but that is my decision to make, and no one else's (other, of course, than any hypothetical buyers). "I don't need you to remind me of my age. I have a bladder to do that for me." -- Stephen Fry Hi again, I guess that is the good part of owning my studio. I am gonna sound like my father here but it guess it plays true : as long as I pay the rent I get to make the rules ;9 Happy Potting Trina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 "I get the part about insurance concerns, but as a student, I'll decide for myself when and if I want to sell a piece. I don't need anyone else's permission to do so." Sojourner, Yes you have to right to decide if your work is ready for sale, but if you are using someone else's studio and equipment to produce it, that person does indeed have the right to restrict you from doing so. madmingei's policy sounds just right to me. If I had students in my home studio, I wouldn't mind if they wanted to sell an occasional pot to an aquaintance. But if a student wanted to start applying to art fairs and supplying to galleries, I would tell them it was time for them to undertake the responsibilties of their own studio. Mea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I have to agree ... Once you start into serious sales you need to get out of the nest ... Even if you need to be pushed! This is good for you and the teaching studio. You need to get full control of your work ... The whole process. Nothing worse for both sides than you needing work for a show and no room in the community kiln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teardrop Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 If a person buys their own clay and throws pots on their own wheel...then pays what the studio itself sets as firing rates for their firings.... the consensus here is that the person has no right to sell their own work? are you afraid of the competition, folks? much respect, sojourner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 "If a person buys their own clay and throws pots on their own wheel...then pays what the studio itself sets as firing rates for their firings...." No, teardrop, this is not what we're talking about. This entire thread is about policies for having students use another potter's HOME STUDIO for classes. There are clay facilities where such policies are allowed, but we are talking about home studios. Mea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trina Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 If a person buys their own clay and throws pots on their own wheel...then pays what the studio itself sets as firing rates for their firings.... the consensus here is that the person has no right to sell their own work? are you afraid of the competition, folks? much respect, sojourner. I agree, I don't think this is what we are talking about, you can sell your work all you want and in reality no one can stop you. However I personally am not interested in subsidizing professionals. Why should I? There is absolutely nothing in it for me. I love teaching but if you have nothing left to learn you are a potter in my book so more on. If you have your own wheel and clay the next logical step is buy a kiln, take all the responsibly for your work (I had a kiln failure this morning which I get to explain to my group tomorrow, that would be a real drag for you if you had 200 coffee cups in there that just got over reduced) I wish I knew a studio that would let me work en mass for the prices which I currently charge. I know where I would be tomorrow Trina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teardrop Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Apologies all around. I was merely commenting on the statements sojourner made in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmingei Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks for the great responses to my post everyone. I am new to this forum but amazed at how involved people are! Teardrop, I just want to clarify that in my studio classes students do not buy their clay separately or own any of the equipment. The clay/glazing charges are averaged and built in to their fees but it is at an at-cost amount. This is because I believe that people starting out should be able to produce a lot of work in order to improve their skills. I then encourage them to critique and only choose the best to glaze. This creates a big re-cycling stage for me but I feel its important to me philosophically not to make a profit from materials. It is my teaching which I put value on. This makes it ripe for people who are more advanced or into production to see the loophole and take advantage of it. I have had that situation and it was definitely time for the student to move on. In that case the person even had their own set-up at their home already! It was clear they were taking advantage of my generosity which I provide because of my educational philosophy which is focussed on learning. You've helped clarify for me the big difference between a learning facility and a production facility and I do not want to go down the path of the latter. As Trina says - its a whole different thing. However, I totally recognise it is a tricky dilemma - that blurry line between being a student and being in production. Not easy to navigate for us teaching in studios. I looked at the Mudflat web site - it is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmingei Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 .... Separation of work: that's another reason I am expanding! There is no more space at home and I am very much looking forward to having my home studio back to myself! I have a large damp cupboard and a large storage rack for students that is separate from my own. Both can fit about 20 student's work (on 1.2m long boards) but above that it gets pretty tight. I also have to continually wrap student's work when leather-hard to stall it from drying. This is a real hassel (suggestions welcome please!!) ...snip.... During the winter I work in an outdoor studio in the desert and we use old, non-functional refrigerators to store work in progress and slow down drying on completed work. In especially difficult weather when work is drying too quickly even while wrapped in plastic in the refrigerators, we put a wet towel into the refrigerator to increase humidity. Thanks GG! Sounds a great idea and I have considered it but I think fridges might take up too much space inside....it would be great to have the same insulation quality without the bulk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teardrop Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Teardrop, I just want to clarify The clarification of "I furnish everything and production is not allowed in my studio" is appreciated and I respect and understand your stance/viewpoint on the topic. This is basically what the college I attend (non-credit class/no "grading", BTW) is also saying. I can and will respect their policy. Classwork in class. Production/sales work from home. What's funny is that I don't even know if anyone will buy my work. I could easily end up with a garage full of colorful water pitchers, teapots, and funky ashtrays not that it matters 'cus I'll make the stuff anyway...just for the experience/fun of it. good luck, all teardrop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 "I get the part about insurance concerns, but as a student, I'll decide for myself when and if I want to sell a piece. I don't need anyone else's permission to do so." Sojourner, Yes you have to right to decide if your work is ready for sale, but if you are using someone else's studio and equipment to produce it, that person does indeed have the right to restrict you from doing so. madmingei's policy sounds just right to me. If I had students in my home studio, I wouldn't mind if they wanted to sell an occasional pot to an aquaintance. But if a student wanted to start applying to art fairs and supplying to galleries, I would tell them it was time for them to undertake the responsibilties of their own studio. Mea Clearly there is a difference between production pottery and selling the odd piece here and there, but that is not the impression I got from the OPs post. She made it pretty clear that not a single piece would be allowed to be sold without her express permission, and it sounded pretty much like she had no intention of giving said permission unless and until the potter in question meets some undefined standard of her own devising. Frankly I strongly doubt that this rule is much adhered to, or that she would know the difference if one or two pieces are sold under the table. BTW, she has the same insurance risk if someone GIVES a piece away; are the student's also prohibited from gifting their pieces? Again, it is, of course, her right to have any rule she wants, and clearly she is having success. But for me, having to apply to her and ask for her permission before I am allowed to sell even a single piece of my own work is just over the top, and I have NEVER heard of anyone having a rule this restrictive. For me, it's too intrusive. I would seek classes/studio time elsewhere. That's all I'm saying. "I don't need you to remind me of my age. I have a bladder to do that for me." -- Stephen Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hi again, I guess that is the good part of owning my studio. I am gonna sound like my father here but it guess it plays true : as long as I pay the rent I get to make the rules ;9 Happy Potting Trina And as long as I am paying, I get to decide who I'm going to do business with. I would not do business under these circumstances. YMMV. Soj "I don't need you to remind me of my age. I have a bladder to do that for me." -- Stephen Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I have to agree ... Once you start into serious sales you need to get out of the nest ... Even if you need to be pushed! This is good for you and the teaching studio. You need to get full control of your work ... The whole process. Nothing worse for both sides than you needing work for a show and no room in the community kiln. I agree with this as well. What I do NOT agree with is requiring an agreement that one may not sell ANY work at all. Absolutely, full production is much harder on the equipment, takes up more space in the studio, in the kilns, uses up more resources, and can quite easily and quickly become an impediment to the other students. No problem with that at all. However - and perhaps I misunderstood the OPs posting, I'd be happy to have her set me straight on this - to be told you may not sell ANY work at all is overly restrictive, and by and large unnecessary since the vast majority of students never get past the lumpy pot stage. 100%, you should not be doing production pottery in a class room setting, but having the odd sale here and there shouldn't be tying anybody's knickers in a knot. I may NEVER get to the place where I produce salable items; but when and if I do, that's my prerogative - within reason. I already work from home the vast majority of the time, and I have access to kiln space for production should I ever require it; but if I were to turn out a salable piece in a class then I fail to see why it's any skin of anyone's nose if I sell it. THIRTY salable pieces - or even a dozen - would be quite a different matter. If I were turning work out on that scale, I'd rather fire a kiln load of my own stuff anyway - every time you turn around, somebody's putting something in those student kilns that ruins the kiln load, or the person loading it is careless because it's "only student work" and things get squashed up against each other. I've had stuff come out of the student kilns that had grid marks cooked into it because it was shoved up against SOMETHING that left those marks - I burnish my surfaces, even when firing to cone 6, just for practice, and there were no marks like that when the leatherware went onto the shelf for bisque firing. It's not only unreasonable to try to do production quantities in a class room setting, it's flat out bad business, for the potter as WELL as the studio owner. One exploded pot, one glaze somebody snuck into the studio that releases weird fumes into the kiln (we had an entire load come out coated blue, including the kiln shelves, from a glaze that was snuck in by an INSTRUCTOR, not just a student) and your salable items are no more. So yeah, doing production in a class is not reasonable. Selling a piece here and there once in awhile is a totally different matter. "I don't need you to remind me of my age. I have a bladder to do that for me." -- Stephen Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 "If a person buys their own clay and throws pots on their own wheel...then pays what the studio itself sets as firing rates for their firings...." No, teardrop, this is not what we're talking about. This entire thread is about policies for having students use another potter's HOME STUDIO for classes. There are clay facilities where such policies are allowed, but we are talking about home studios. Mea Nope, I was commenting on the rules a woman who is opening a studio up in COMMERCIAL SPACE has set up. Not her home studio. Also, I'm not talking about full blown production, but the occasional piece here and there. It's just plain dumb to try to do full production out of a classroom, whether it's in a commercial space or someone's home studio. I've got absolutely no problem with rules prohibiting that. But it's swinging to the opposite extreme of being unreasonable to refuse to allow a student to sell anything at all. And frankly for the vast majority of students it's going to be a non-issue anyway. Clearly this person is having a lot of success, and it sounds like she's probably a good teacher (or she wouldn't be having such success), so kudos to her for all that. But MY personal preference is NOT to be burdened by such a Draconian rule. That's my prerogative, as it is hers to have such a rule in the first place. "I don't need you to remind me of my age. I have a bladder to do that for me." -- Stephen Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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