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Pres

Qotw: Do You Like Innies Or Outies?

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The Question of the week this week comes from RonSa. I chose this particular question for its humorous title lightening things up a bit. So RonSa asks:

 

Do you like Innies or Outies?

 

Do you prefer a lid that fits in the galley or expand over the galley?

 

 

I find that I make the lid to fit the function of the form. When throwing a casserole, I like the lid to fit over the top rim of the base with a flange on the lid that fits inside of the rim. Teapots in much the same way, but I have done several where a shelf inset into the rim of the pot would allow the lid to set down into pot hiding the join, and completing the form. Often this is not needed, but some really rounded forms, this allows the illusion of completely round. My problem with most shelf type opening is the extra cleaning that it takes to clean the area of something like baked on macaroni and cheese, or the amount of space the shelf take out of the opening, as in a teapot opening where the shelf may limit the cleaning area to reach the inside of the pot without a bottle brush.

 

I have found that of late I am using a flared rim on bowls to allow easy handling. My wife has been using these for baking macaroni and cheese and other things in the oven, and finds the flared rims make it easy to lift the bowl out of the oven when using mitts. I have been considering casseroles that use the flared rim instead of handles, and how I would make a lid for on such an item. Any idea yet to be harvested.

 

 

So answer the question, and have a little chuckle as you consider the implications of Innies and Outies.

 

 

best,

Pres

 

GiselleNo5 likes this

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pres are you referring to the thing called "gallery" in nearly everything i have read about lids?  i guess it could be called a shelf but this is the first i have ever heard that term.

 

i make both a pot with a gallery for the lid to fit inside and a flange on that lid to keep the lid from falling out.  

 

so is that an innie with an outie or a whatie?

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Old Lady, I have heard the shelf I was talking about as being a gallery, or sometimes a galley. So in order to be clearer, as I have never found a definition, I went with a description. So if we call it a galley, do you make a galley that the lid fits onto/into, or do you make a lid with a galley that the lid has a portion that holds it onto the pot. As you say, some people do it both ways, especially as in a teapot where the lid may fit into a gallery, but has an area/gallery on the lid that fits into the pot further.

 

 

 

best,

Pres

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When I made lidded pieces many years ago, I made the lids to fit nicely inside the rim of casserole bowls or ginger jars.an inner flange. The way I work now is so different, I only use a wire and do asymmetrical  funky sliced "tops" that basically just sit on the bottom piece (just small boxes, at this point). I usually carve out a bit of the underside of the lid to reduce weight and maybe introduce texture. I dry them together and fire them together so they keep their fit, but it is not tight or precise.  

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Most of my lids are innies. Form to some degree usually dictates this. For example in an outie form

a French butterdish (butter bell)works best as an outie . This lid flips upside down sits flat and line can knife the butter from the lid. As an outie the width is small enough so you can grab the whole lid without a lifter thrown on the top-which in this case would ruin the lay it flat and use a knife idea. In a canister sets cookie jars and honey pots and jam pots I use innies and throw a lifter on the lid.This is because they are faster to make I feel and a bit less work.I can adjust an innie faster than an outie while trimming.
I also will add that an outie is a tad more durable than an innie as they can be made thicker as they look fine that way.
I make lots of lidded forms in my production line-they sell slower and cost more.
Some pots look better with one or the other-I think this covered jar of mine works best with this outie. vs an innie.The lifter would just not look as well on that form I feel.
Sallyd and Pres like this

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I have only made like 3 jars in my entire life. The ones I did sat on the gallery with no inside part(going down to secure it on). Quick and easy. They did fit tight though against the rim.. I need to make more stuff with lids, but one thing at a time.

 

Good QOTW.

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will be home after the 22 or so and will check my books.  i think the best description of lids is in robin hopper's functional pottery book.  i think i remember several examples of lids and the gallery into which they fit.   :unsure:   or maybe it was charles counts' book, ;)    or was it nelson's book..................................or................. :wacko:

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All of those are stored in the attic at present while we get ready to redo the library with full book shelves to the ceiling, and double layers. Sometimes having good books can cramp you, as in close in your space! My worst habit is to pull one off the shelf, and start reading it all over again only to be interrupted by the next new book! 

 

 

best,

Pres

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I recall other names for them-but I get what he meant so I used those terms. Its the idea and Its clear to me whatever we want to call them.I could look it upon in my Library as well ..

I have always called the outies -flanged lids

Marcia Selsor and Pres like this

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My question was meant to be both a play on words and fun while hopefully adding some insight to other potters preferences.  It seems that I've cause more controversy than fun which wasn't my intention. My apologizes,

 

In woodturning I have made both, a lid that fits either over or inside a rim. When asked by other turners to show them how to turn lidded jars (turners call them boxes) I always start with a lid that fits inside the rim because it is easier to learn.

 

So far I've only thrown jars with a inner fitting lids because I thought it would be easier to start. Next time on the wheel I plan on doing a lid that fits over the rim.

 

Funny thing is I could throw the body in 5 to 15 minutes while the lid takes me an hour. Its the same way with trimming, maybe even more time with the lid just to get what I think is a good fit. Is this the case with other potters?

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Ron I don't see any controversy here I see fun.  It depends on the form whether it is a innie or a outie, right now I am doing innes.  Pots with lids do take longer to make but are worth it.  A lid adds class, style, interest, function, and design.  If you watch people looking at a collection of pottery they are immediately drawn to the one with the lid which they have to pick up.   Denice

Min, Lucille Oka and RonSa like this

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I think it is a matter of form follows function. Galleys for casseroles should have a galley where the lid sits inside the rim to prevent the food from boiling over.

Urns on the other hand , are sealed shut and the visual balance of the vessel to the top accented by an outie is an aesthetic choice.

Cookie jars may need to be outie as well, and possibly less prone to chipping by eager eaters.

Teapots need a deep flange to counter weight tipping while pouring. I make teapots with both innies and outies with a deep 1.5-2" flange.

 

Marcia

GEP, Min and What? like this

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(Is this the case with other potters?)
No not for me. I can tell you a few tricks-If you are making lids say for honey pots make the gallery and lid all the same size.For me its 10cm.` Same with other forms -all the same size-butterdishs etc. This saves time. Trimming  should be another quick process. Work in groups and learn to trim at speed.

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(Is this the case with other potters?)
No not for me. [snip]
 
Trimming  should be another quick process. Work in groups and learn to trim at speed.

 

 

Practice, practice, practice. With that I'll get experience.

 

I think my problem is I've been throwing the lid right side up along with the knob then trimming the clay out from the inside. I'm thinking of trying to throw the lid upside down and have the inside opened like a bowl then attach the knob after trimming and see how that goes.

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Yes, Ron you are correct. Lids may be thrown right side up, or upside down depending on the type of lid. If using a flat lid setting inside of a galley/gallery, then throw it right side up. If throwing a lid with a galley/gallery on it, then throw it upside down as in a low bowl with a thick rim that you split to make a flat area for the section to fit on the rim of the pot, and a flange that fits inside of the pot rim-sort of an shaped cross section.

 

As to the confusion here, I don't think there is any. I think that the way things are put makes people think twice about the answer and the question itself, and isn't it just plain fun!

 

 

best,

Pres

RonSa likes this

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Ron as a production potter this is what I do-just to be clear its my way which is a way not the way for everyone and not the only way.

I throw all 10cm lids or smaller off the hump with a lifter and trim the bottoms then tap the center with a rounded wood tool to avoid s cracks. This is for all honey /jam pots.I trim the lids in a honey pot not a chuck.

I throw flanged lids upside down and trim the edges a bit later (on plaster bats)

I throw all inners upside down and trim tops and throw the lifter on top at same time.-Cannisters/butter dishes/cookie jars /etc

I use the giffen grip for speed (sorry for those who do not believe)

I use a dab of slip on a scored lid to add the small clay ball for the lifter in center-often I use clay under lid in center to support lid if its soft and thin.

RonSa likes this

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Thanks Mark, while I'm not planing on becoming a production potter I do beleive in the efficiency of effort so I'm listening very closely to what you are saying.

 

I'm thinking a lifter is what I call the knob?

 

I've been throwing/trimming my inner lids with a flange and a lifter. I've been trimming the lid in the pot as well and calling the pot a chuck. I've been rethinking my process and trying to adjust my technique by breaking down the components. Based on  your post it looks like I'm moving towards the right direction.

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I believe when Mark talks about a lifter, he is talking about a tool to remove the lid from the hump. It may be a spatula, a wooden knife rib, or as I use an old style straight blade butter knife. This type of tool does not require cutting first, it allows you to cut and lift the lid all in one motion. It takes a little practice, but cut down a lot on the number of steps needed when throwing 20 lids, or 20 chalice bowls.

 

best,

Pres

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Ok, so I have 3 different types of lids, numbered. Take a vote on what you would call an innie, and an outie. The second number 3 is for a teapot as the longer galley into the pot will help to hold the lid on.post-894-0-75906800-1492053295_thumb.jpg

 

 

best,

Pres

post-894-0-75906800-1492053295_thumb.jpg

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#1 and #3 are innies. #2 is an outtie. I am more of a innie guy myself. I know the term as a "gallery" of what we are speaking of. As far as making lids I will make two just in case one a little larger. Unless I am throwing groups then I still make extra to mix and match.

 

The next question is (drum roll)..... do you fire with the lids on or off? I don't on smaller pieces (I like the gallery to be glazed when possible and no wax or clean up; for large pieces I do fire together for warping mainly.

 

Mark: thanks for the tips. Make them all the same size across your line of work; genius!

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