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Poor Basic Skill Sets, And Their Consequences


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I have been helping with the adult Ceramics class at the High School that I taught at years ago. The class is made up of teachers in the district, mostly in other majors, with some art teachers included.

While working during the class, I noticed that one of the experienced throwers was having problems with the forms being quite often off center. I really couldn't put my finger on what was the problem as he was a left handed thrower that throws left handed. His smaller forms seemed to be pretty well on center, but when he was working larger they were off center. I had not really paid a whole lot of attention to it as, he was experienced, and I really didn't know how to approach it, but helped when I could even helping him with rim problems or form development. This last Saturday, I was throwing some pieces next to him and happened to see him centering for the first time. . . . it suddenly dawned on me. . . . he was centering on the left side of the wheel with the clay going clockwise! I asked him, where he learned to do that, and he told me he had seen others centering and that was what he learned to do. When I explained to him that he had to work with the clay going into the base of his palm braced by the arm braced in to the body at the hip, he started to realize that his centering was on the wrong side. We did moved him to the right side of the wheel, and he centered the next few pieces of clay effortlessly, and was able to throw much more on center.

 

Point being here, a simple foundation step erroneously learned prevented him from moving beyond smaller amounts of clay when throwing. I always stressed the basics in class, and would always tell students to learn to walk before they could run. At the same time, I tried to get beginners whether left or right handed to learn as a right hander. This may have been poor on my part, but in my classes it was easier. However, if someone could not learn how to throw on the right, I could reasonably demonstrate and help them on the left.

 

Have you ever seen someone struggle because of poor or erroneous understanding and control of the basics?

 

 

 

 

best,

Pres 

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I've seen a lots of that. It's amazing what people think or have been taught is "correct" but doesn't work or works poorly. I like to teach to an individuals strong points rather than to a "correct" theory or form. What works for one person may not work for another. I change what I do and how I do it depending on how/what I'm feeling a the moment v.s using "proper technique". I've been a rule breaker and unconventional person all my life, so I see no point in changing now.

 

I may not be "proper" :rolleyes:  ....but you can't argue with results.... ;)

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Guest JBaymore

 

Have you ever seen someone struggle because of poor or erroneous understanding and control of the basics?

 

All the time.  A lot of people want to just 'skip ahead' without putting in the basic learning that would develop skills that will allow them much greater ability to realize the objects that they want to produce.  They "trade off" some instant results for the long term consequences of the "skipping".

 

Another factor I see a lot is people teaching that don't bother to do the fundamental educational step of "checking for understanding".  The teacher presents material and he/she knows what they THINK they communicated.  The learners are getting something different than what the teacher thinks.  But unless there is that check for what is actually getting transferred for information........ you really have no idea what the learners picked up.  Then you see them later... and they are saying or doing something that flabbergasts you.

 

Teacher screw up.... not learner.

 

best,

 

................john

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I always tell my students to be very wary of what they see on YouTube. Lots of people post videos of how they work, and it's exciting for beginners/amateurs to watch, but they don't understand that someone who has been making pots for 10 years has evolved into their throwing techniques. As beginners they just don't have an understanding or feel for the clay to be able to work that way. I definitely don't throw the way I demo for beginners, because I show them a simplified method that has one distinct action for each hand. I also get a fair number of students who came from other studios where the teacher has taught them they way he/she throws, and it's too complicated for a newbie to understand, and they struggle with centering.

 

I had a student once who was working on the wrong side of the clay for the first few days of class, and I never caught it because every time I walked by she would take her hands off the clay and look busy doing something else because she was so nervous.

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right on time.  tonight, i visited a class to talk to some students who were taking that same "class" years ago before i got my studio set up.  one of my friends was trimming a bowl.  all of her bowls look like drums.  the trimming consists of putting a small foot near the outer diameter and removing a little clay from the transition area from foot to wall.

 

i noticed she was holding a tool, a rounded hollow triangle on a stick.  the tool was bouncing all over the place because she never realized that the tool should cut clay away, not just follow the bumps and sort of smooth them by passing over the bumps.  she was pleasantly surprised to find the tool made a difference when she controlled it and cut the excess away.

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Being new to throwing; these types of threads interest me. I can center (BARELY), and I can pull walls up to about 12". I have noticed, that when I pull beyond that height I begin to get the form off center. I have also noticed though, that I stop pulling up in a straight vertical line. Have not yet figured out how to over come my natural inclination to pull towards myself when I get higher.

 

Nerd

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Making movies that are for beginners is difficult. The issues a beginning student faces are ones that experienced potters have eliminated and forgotten. I can't even make the soft-serve ice cream cone my students have mastered!

 

--

I learned (and teach) in the American counter-clockwise way. I have come to realize this is the wrong direction for right-handed people. In the long run, all the fine steps are being done with the left hand. So I tell my left handed students "well, actually all the right handed people are going the wrong way". When you start to shape a bowl with your left hand it makes sense.

 

--

One of my people had never been shown burnishing a foot ring to make it as smooth as possible. Gotta take care of the bottoms! They don't get glaze and will be on your tables.

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Being new to throwing; these types of threads interest me. I can center (BARELY), and I can pull walls up to about 12". I have noticed, that when I pull beyond that height I begin to get the form off center. I have also noticed though, that I stop pulling up in a straight vertical line. Have not yet figured out how to over come my natural inclination to pull towards myself when I get higher.

 

Nerd

 

There is some "cheating" you can do. Like collaring after finishing the pull if the clay is starting to head outward. I frequently ease up at 3/4 of the height and readjust my hands on tall cylinders. Really the goal is fearlessly making small adjustments to maintain a workable shape.

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I believe that the reason there are good teachers out there is that they are able to refresh their memories with each student as to how a beginner approaches the clay, and how a beginner misinterprets what he is feeling in the clay. One of the biggest mistakes is to rely on your sense of sight, not touch. Another is to think that pure brute force will overcome anything. Understanding the rhythm of the wheel is the hardest of things to learn along with an understanding of the centrifugal forces the wheel puts on the clay in relation to the amount of drag you place on the clay.

 

Nerd, one of the best hints to throwing is to lean to the right(if you are throwing counter clockwise) so that your left arm seems to be more straight down into the piece. When pulling keep your elbows in tight to your body as much as possible, and make the pulls so that the pot naturally is narrower at the top than at the bottom. Clarifying, make your pulls going inward slightly as going upward.

 

 

 

best,

Pres 

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i went back to throwing after winter break (about 1 1/2 months). i had a hard time the first couple of days. centering. because i had forgotten to lean into the clay. the moment i got my body into the right position, things went smoothly.

 

nerd i am exactly where you are now. now i understand exactly why the v shaped vase was so common. i have to collar in regularly to keep the clay in shape. 

 

in our class the students always talk about how the TA is so helpful. it makes a difference being so close to beginner and being able to spot issues and offer helpful advice. 

 

i really did not learn how to center until i started doing it blindly. one of the problems is sometimes the clay looks centered when it really isnt. or the opposite is true too. i'd have to feel the clay to see if it was centered. i pull the first couple of pulls blind too. 

 

i have found myself, watching videos on throwing, that my favourite ones that i can relate to are high school teachers. 

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RonSa,

When centering and getting the pulls for height, rely on your sense of touch more than sight. When expanding the form for volume, use both. When expanding the form use your sense of touch to not over do, and your sight to come to a pleasing form. Remember that you can not expand the form in one motion, but in several motions a little at a time to allow the clay to stretch slowly. Think of someone who gains too much weight to fast, or a pregnant woman stretching the skin quickly causes stretch marks. In clay stretching too quickly causes stretch cracks.

 

I have often done complete demonstrations, blind folded to stress the need for the sense of touch over sight. It really is not too difficult for one with some experience. I also do it for myself when alone, just to learn more about the process.

 

 

 

best, 

Pres

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Guest JBaymore

 One of the biggest mistakes is to rely on your sense of sight, not touch. Another is to think that pure brute force will overcome anything.

 

Amen to this!

 

best,

 

............john

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Guest JBaymore

To clarify so I'm understanding correctly, I should rely more on feel than sight?

 

Both need to be developed... so that you have both "tools" in the "toolbox", and can quickly drag the right one out at any given moment as needed.

 

Most of us in the visual arts tend to be "visual" learners.  We depend on our eyes a lot to interact with the world.  So our visual skills are often very well developed.  We'll call that tool a "screwdriver".  We tend to use that "screwdriver" a lot in our lives.  (Note that a lot of us WATCH you-tube videos and CDs to learn.) 

 

Proprioception (awareness of body in space) and tactile sensibility of the fingers, hands, arms, torso, and lower body are often less acutely developed in many of us.  And when you are new to a physical task of interacting with your body into the world (throwing)....... even the sensibilities that you've developed in the rest of your life are likely not refined in the way that they need to be for working with clay on the wheel.  I'll call this "tool" in the "toolbox" a "hammer".

 

Throwing well requires both screw drivers and hammers.  When all you have is a screwdriver... and you get handed a nail........ you are going to try to twist that sucker in there... or beat on it with the handle of the screwdriver.  Neither will work as well as the hammer.

 

So you need to develop both aspects of your skills.  Otherwise your toolbox is missing a few needed tools.

 

best,

 

....................john

 

PS:  "When all you have is a hammer, the world looks like a nail."

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 One of the biggest mistakes is to rely on your sense of sight, not touch. Another is to think that pure brute force will overcome anything.

 

Amen to this!

 

best,

 

............john

 

On a course last summer we were asked to make bowls by feel alone. Initially daunted, but I took to it quickly and found it a very useful excercise.

Joe

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... have also noticed though, that I stop pulling up in a straight vertical line. Have not yet figured out how to over come my natural inclination to pull towards myself when I get higher.

 

 

 

Most of us have a natural tendency to pull out hands toward our eyes in a straight line.  When you are sitting or standing at a wheel, your eyes are not in a straight line with the wall of the clay.  When I finally recognized that I was making straight line flared cylinders, I moved my eyes (nose actually) directly above the wall that I wanted vertical, and was able to overcome the flaring problem.  After a while, I started watching the profile of the pot on the opposite side of the pot - for me my hands are at 3 o'clock, so I watch the profile at 9 o'clock and can now not have to move heat over the pot.   If  my hands are at 6 o'clock I also look at the 9 o'clock profile (wheel is turning anti-clockwise.   The point here is to look where the profile is nearest to its position without any tool or hand touching the clay.  Many clay bodies are somewhat elastic - porcelain and smooth stoneware especially - and the profile at the position of the hands making the clay change position is not at the equilibrium position. 

 

LT. 

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When I took my classes Wheel consisted of basically one session watching the teacher at the wheel and then getting on it and trying myself. Not much instruction, I had no idea about so much and have just been figuring it out myself with help from here, videos, books, etc.

 

First thing I discovered was I couldn't center for the life of me until I closed my eyes. As soon as I did this the clay TOLD ME what it needed. I find closing my eyes to center the clay also centers me. Puts me in the right frame of mind and more connected to the clay. I tell my students now to listen to their clay it's telling them what it needs. It's funny when they close their eyes and try centering that way for the first time and they go, "OH! I knew exactly what it needed to make it centered!" Such a simple thing yet often overlooked. I only teach basic Wheel as I feel it is my weakest forming method mostly because of back issues. But I try and give them a good foundation to build on as they practice on their own.

 

T

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Matthew said: I frequently ease up at 3/4 of the height and readjust my hands on tall cylinders.

I have noticed that- I find myself changing pressure in that area anyway.

 

LT said---:is not at the equilibrium position.

I get that actually.

 

Still find that I am leaving way too much clay in the bottom. I am using my first thrown pieces for glaze experiments; not good for much else. Last two months have not been able to get around clay much: life got way too busy.

 

Nerd

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Squeeze really hard in the beginning of the first pull to get a good roll to start to move up, then let up and let the rest happen. The base of the pot is pretty stable early in the throw, if you squeeze with your left, thumb at the bottom, and press in on the donut to control its motion going up and inward, the clay will want to rise on itself.  Squeezing harder than you would normally in the very first pull at the very beginning will move a lot of excess out of the base early. This moves it into the walls of the pot to be thinned later.

 

 

best,

Pres

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When I took my classes Wheel consisted of basically one session watching the teacher at the wheel and then getting on it and trying myself. Not much instruction, I had no idea about so much and have just been figuring it out myself with help from here, videos, books, etc.

 

First thing I discovered was I couldn't center for the life of me until I closed my eyes. As soon as I did this the clay TOLD ME what it needed. I find closing my eyes to center the clay also centers me. Puts me in the right frame of mind and more connected to the clay. I tell my students now to listen to their clay it's telling them what it needs. It's funny when they close their eyes and try centering that way for the first time and they go, "OH! I knew exactly what it needed to make it centered!" Such a simple thing yet often overlooked. I only teach basic Wheel as I feel it is my weakest forming method mostly because of back issues. But I try and give them a good foundation to build on as they practice on their own.

 

T

I used to often tell my students. . . . You have to move the clay, don't let the clay move you!

 

best,

Pres

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Another observation:

Nearly all beginners think they are messing up or having trouble centering the clay. They are opening it poorly and allowing a wobble to come in. 

 

And open it much wider. Bigger than the intended bottom size. Heavy bottoms come from not opening it wide enough.

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My thought on youtube only learning is you get what you pay for-that is there are so many wrong youtube things that you have to know whats not good and that as a beginner is almost impossible to know that. Hence you will be learning the wrong way just as likely the right way.

Learning to throw at some point you need to have a Human in the flesh be around a little-my 2 cents

I was thinking on being a brain surgeon and was going to learn from youtube-what could go wrong?I was going to work on potatoes for a few weeks first before starting on people.I am thinking of netflixing a few Frankenstein films to before starting with people.

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i agree mark. 

 

even though i am in a class, its only when i took small group lessons did i learn about how much pressure you need to push into the foot. i wasnt pushing in enough did my teacher put her hands on me and we did it together. i was shocked. but it totally changed my throwing. 

 

whenever i have helped other students i make them stand up and i push against them. 'really?! that much pressure?!"

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