Guest JBaymore Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 When you say the breaker trips... what is the size (Amperage) of the breaker... and what is the amperage of the FUSE in the wheel control? Are you saying that the wheel fuse never blows? It is also possible here that there are TWO separate issues involved...and we are conflating them into one. best, ......................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 As long as the board components are the same values you could start shaping them put-iy will be cheap enough. As John asked does the fuze in wheel blow or the main breaker in shop? awn what are the fuze and breaker values (amps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Controllers go bad. It happens. If the problem is not the pedal assembly, then it's the controller. There's nothing else there to fix, right? That's right, but the control board is made up of many smaller components (triacs, capacitors, resistors, etc.) most of which are almost certainly fine. These are through-hole components, which means that they are easy to remove and replace. It is really wasteful to replace the whole control board when it's likely that only one component has failed, or maybe there is a broken trace or a cold solder-joint. Unfortunately, I don't have the skills to diagnose the problem, which is why I am looking for help here. Sounds like a short if your breaker is tripping, how does your pedal cord look & feel, any kinks or softer spots when you bend it around? Just another idea to check. The pedal cord was just replaced with the speed assembly, so its brand new. When you say the breaker trips... what is the size (Amperage) of the breaker... and what is the amperage of the FUSE in the wheel control? Are you saying that the wheel fuse never blows? It's the main circuit breaker for my house, an 80A breaker. Everything else in the house is on this breaker. The fuse in the control box is a 10A fuse and does not blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 By the way, it's not just that the wheel trips the breaker, remember that on power up the motor runs at full speed no matter where the pedal is positioned, so there is something else going on. Another thing I noticed is that my control box does not have the large blue capacitor that is shown in the illustration on the Brent website, see pics. I don't think this is the issue, as the wheel was working fine before, but I'm wondering why my control box doesn't have it. I will likely end up buying a new control board if all else fails but it would be better to find out exactly what the problem is. I'm not getting any answers from Brent and they don't have or won't supply a schematic for the control board. Without the schematic or a parts list it is harder to work out what parts I need to overhaul the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 wow thats one dead short to trip an 80 amp breaker.Does the control box smell burnt? The control box you show with the blue capacitor is an old one for sure.I have 5 Brent wheels and none of the control boxes look like that on the inside. They have gone thru many a change over the 4+ decades-thats why they do not have good info on this as they have had so many changes. This may sound strange but have you checked your motors brushes(some models have easy access to them) just make sure they go back in the same way exactly-and unplug wheel before looking at them. I think I have a wheel with your same control outer box.What year is this wheel-I'm assuming its an older (not rotational change switch under deck) as well? I would look at brushes. I'm assuming your two speed control screws on foot pedal are adjusted right? meaning they have some control or is the wheel just high speed and wam breaker trips? What was the thing that made you buy a new foot pedal?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Does the control box smell burnt? Nope, the control box is fine, you can see in the pic above, no burn marks anywhere. This may sound strange but have you checked your motors brushes? Nope, haven't checked that yet, I'm not sure I can get to them but I will have a look. What year is this wheel-I'm assuming its an older (not rotational change switch under deck) as well? It's old, no reverse switch. I'm assuming your two speed control screws on foot pedal are adjusted right? What was the thing that made you buy a new foot pedal? I've tried the control screws at different positions and now have them on the lowest speed, the motor still runs fast and trips the breaker. I jumped to conclusions and thought the foot pedal was the problem, so I replaced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 My 1st Brent I bought in 1970-1971? the other 4 are not quite as old but none have the newer reversing switch . Let us know what fixes this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 How long does the motor run before the breaker trips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 How long does the motor run before the breaker trips? Usually almost immediately. I didn't feel confident taking the motor apart (it looked like it was going to be tricky), so I have taken the motor to a local electric motor repair guy. A couple of things I learnt from him: -It wasn't a circuit-breaker that was tripping, it was my house's earth-leakage switch. -He said that carbon can build up on the brushes leading to a short. He's going to test the motor so I can at least rule that out as being the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 (it was my house's earth-leakage switch.) we call that a ground fault on this side of the pond. To me that means a short.The motor is best guess unless your ground fault is malfuntioning which can happen. ​Does your wheel have one of the older blue motors ?. With non access to the brushes . The motors say from the middle 90s have two twist off access points on side of ,motor to get to brushes. The older motors do not have this accesses feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 ​Does your wheel have one of the older blue motors ?. With non access to the brushes . The motors say from the middle 90s have two twist off access points on side of ,motor to get to brushes. The older motors do not have this accesses feature. Yes, it's a blue motor, no access points on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 OK thats an older motor and the motor shop was a good call they should be able to short it out. I took one apart once and it was a bad idea. My guess is your wheel is from the 70's. One other question I have never heard of a CXCK -are you sure about the K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted January 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 OK thats an older motor and the motor shop was a good call they should be able to short it out. I took one apart once and it was a bad idea. My guess is your wheel is from the 70's. One other question I have never heard of a CXCK -are you sure about the K? I don't know why it has the "K" but it's definitely there on the model no. The motor shop tested the motor and said that it ran fine when they plugged it in without the electronics, so the motor is good. I guess I'm going to have to get a new control board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Is this 220 Volt wheel or the typical 110V?Either way there is a step down dc converter. If I recall your Country his 220V-its been about 20 years since I was in Australia -I do recall for sure New Zealand is 220 as a standard. The electric teapots get the water hot right NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 In my experience the motor either works or it doesn't. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I've never seen one work for a few seconds then die. And since the fuse isn't blowing immediately upon turning on the power, that rules out any bad wires. If you got 30 years out of a controller, which is essentially a computer, that's not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 If you got 30 years out of a controller, which is essentially a computer, that's not too shabby. Actually it is just a simple rectified DC power supply. A very basic electronic circuit. And Mark.......... I believe that early on in the thread he said it is the 220VAC model he has. (we need the real schematic) best, ..................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Circuit board = computer in my caveman brain. I can fix kilns but the details of electronics are completely foreign to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Yes I looked back and found that it is 220 v model-I had no idea Brent even offered that option that long ago . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted January 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Hi again, Yes, the schematic would be really handy. I asked Brent for one but they said "the manufacture does not provide us with that information". So I'm guessing their circuit board manufacturer hasn't supplied them with a schematic, which sounds crazy to me. Anyway, the last thing I'm going to try before getting a new control board is to replace the bridge rectifier (KBPC25-06). I figure that it's a $5 part, so I may as well give it a go. It's the only thing apart from the control board that hasn't been tested or replaced. It will take a couple of weeks to get here though, I had to order it from overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Were you able to solve the ground fault issue that was blowing the house breaker? best, ................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarvalue Posted March 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 Hi everyone, Just letting you all know that I am still working on this. Just to recap: The wheel is tripping the ground fault breaker. I did some tests and got the following results: With the on/off switch in the off position the breaker does not blow. With the foot pedal disconnected and the switch turned on the breaker still blows.With the motor disconnected and the switch turned on the breaker does not blow. I have replaced the bridge rectifier, power cord, fuse holder, foot pedal electronic assembly and had the motor tested and reconditioned. Pretty much only the circuit board left. I wish I had a parts list or schematic for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 hours ago, solarvalue said: Hi everyone, Just letting you all know that I am still working on this. Just to recap: The wheel is tripping the ground fault breaker. I did some tests and got the following results: With the on/off switch in the off position the breaker does not blow. With the foot pedal disconnected and the switch turned on the breaker still blows.With the motor disconnected and the switch turned on the breaker does not blow. I have replaced the bridge rectifier, power cord, fuse holder, foot pedal electronic assembly and had the motor tested and reconditioned. Pretty much only the circuit board left. I wish I had a parts list or schematic for it. Could also be a bad breaker. Have you tried it on a different outlet or different circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 Yes the breaker could be the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Could it be a newer Arc fault type breaker (AFCI) thats causing the problem? Those things trip if you look at them wrong. With an old old motor with worn brushes arcing could be the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Arc breaker should not be on a shop circuit -period. No faulty-same with a freezer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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