catgib Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Hello. I have an old Econo kiln, well cared for, until I just over fired it for the first time in the 30 years I have had it. Some of the ceramic element holders cracked. The elements look OK now but I think may sag if fired again without support. So wondering if it is possible to cement the broken holders, and if so what product or recipe to use. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 You could use high fire kiln cement to glue them together.Finding small quantities is the harder part. like this stuff https://www.amazon.com/Amaco-Prepared-Kiln-Cement-Jar/dp/B0044S9CE4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Mark, I would never have thought of Amazon for Kiln cement. My big oval lid got a bad crack after a help put a heavy box on it after the protective board had been removed during the unloading. trying to decide if I should bite the bullet and replace it $345 or try to use kiln cement. Kind of don't trust the cement of that size lid. 42", Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catgib Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Thank you so much Mark! Wonder why I miss this when I searched, but will order this now and try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Mark, I would never have thought of Amazon for Kiln cement. My big oval lid got a bad crack after a help put a heavy box on it after the protective board had been removed during the unloading. trying to decide if I should bite the bullet and replace it $345 or try to use kiln cement. Kind of don't trust the cement of that size lid. 42", Marcia I would not either I just goggled kiln cement. I have various sizes of it myself from 5 gallon bucket down to that small size.I never bought it on Amazon myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I wouldn't trust cement to hold those element holders at all. Plus you run the risk of getting cement on the elements which would be bad for them. Just replace them. Talk to L&L, though, because the new holders may not fit in the old slots. You may have to replace the entire brick, with new holders. Marcia- refractory cement does not hold well on old bricks, plus a big part of what makes a lid or floor slab strong is the layout of the bricks- staggered joints. Cementing up a big crack won't have that benefit, so it is very weak. Bite the bullet and replace it. It will have to ship freight, so get a shipping quote before ordering it. I just got a quote for a replacement floor slab for a Skutt 1227 and it's $165 just for shipping. Of course, you'll be a lot closer in Montana so that may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I agree on getting a new lid for that large size. I usually have a new spare lid for my skutts .Now that I have a larger skutt my new spare lid will not fit as it was the smaller size. I love having spares.I do not like to run out of things. I did not know that old econo kilns and L&L parts interchanged-did L& L come from Econo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 The Econo kilns are L&L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 The Econo kilns are L&L. Well heck like you said order some new parts and install them-easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I replaced my lid on my large Skutt about six months ago, I got one from my local Skutt dealer that he had to replace with a new one. The coating on the lid had bubbled up on the first firing, I paid $60 for the bubbled lid and turned it over, the first time I fired it the other side bubbled. My dealer said I could return it and put the money towards a new lid. I bought my kiln used twenty years ago, I didn't think a 300 dollar lid was a wise investment. I had read about Paragon Lid Coating, so I called them and they said that a nearly knew lid was ideal. I chipped and scraped away the loose areas and followed the instructions for sanding and coating to the letter. It has been great, I don't worry about any junks of coating falling into a glaze firing. It does seem to get thinner after a few firings, so I just freshen up the coating now and then. I keep the jar in the kiln room and use a cheap china bristle brush that you just throw away when your done. Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Longer Member Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Marcia, how bad is it cracked, are you having problems with dusting? What this video, it may make you feel better. If anyone knows anything about making bricks that break ....it's these guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Dean Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Here's some info from the L&L site: https://hotkilns.com/replacing-element-holders My gut reaction is that I would go with Method 2 unless there were only a few element holders to be replaced. Maybe Neil can weigh in on this from his wealth of experience. I believe that L&L updated the design of their element holders at some point. I'd suggest that you call L&L with your kiln model and serial number and find out what your options are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 From this is looks like the Small 541 tan holders should work if they and not the 542's are the original ones. About a third the way down that page they say: ECONO-KILNS, K MODELS, OV OVAL KILNS, B MODELS, DYNA-KILNS All of these obolete kiln models used the small diameter (.33" outside diameter) elements for the small original holder. Marcia, this might be a long shot goofball idea but could you replace your lid with the floor of your kiln, kiln cement then support the cracked lid slab underneath and use it for the floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I have been firing an old L&L econo line now for over 30 years. It has has been overfired a few times, has had the bottom replaced 3 times, the lid now is a new one with two handles and thicker brick-no hinge. The element holders have been replaced in several places as the bricks have also. I have replaced all of the elements 3 times over the years. Thing is built to be repaired, even the electrical can be replaced. So take the extra time to call L&l, discuss your problems, maybe even send a picture or two, and let them tell you the best way to make your repairs. These kilns are too good to just toss, or make have shod repairs. All my personal opinion, best, Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 The element holder design has definitely changed since the Econo Kiln line was made. I don't know if the brick slot has remained the same, though. You'll have to call L&L on that. If they do fit the same then you can break out the old ones and put in the new ones, or just wait until you're ready for an element change and do it at that time when you can remove the brick and slide them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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