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Marcia Selsor

First Hard Paste Porcelain Made In Us Discovered

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JBaymore    1,432

Wish this article had the proposed date more finely stated.  18th Century is pretty broad.  And also why they think the Philadelphia area was the source.  Can't do the $65 for the magazine just for this article.

 

I have a Mercer Pottery porcelain piece that my Great Grandfather made as a wedding present for his wife from about 1865-70.  My family history on multiple lines runs back into the Cook And Mercer potteries of Trenton, NJ into the mid-1800's.

 

best,

 

......................john

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JBaymore    1,432

Trenton, NJ was one of the two most major pottery production centers in the early USA along with East Liverpool, OH for a long time.

 

best,

 

................john

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glazenerd    816

 

I thought so! Needed to share. Where is Nerd?

 

Right here. Very interesting indeed. If my memory is correct; the first porcelain in Europe was Germany- late 1790 or so. Would be curious to know if this predates it? Regardless, in another sense it has to be an original formulation; because porcelain recipes in the 18-19th century Europe were closely guarded secrets. Limoge, Royal Copenhagen, Royal Dalton..etc: kept their clay formulas closely guarded. This is an exciting-historically significant find.

 

Nerd

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

actually is was 1710

The first European porcelain was made in this area in 1708, and in 1710 the Royal Porcelain ... who ruled from I 694 to 1 733, urged his court alchemists to find the secret of making gold, something he badlv ... Johann Friedrich llottgcr. discovered a method for making something almost as precious: fine hard paste

porcelain.

And this claims 6  Philadelphia porcelain manufacturers early on

http://www.chipstone.org/article.php/394/Ceramics-in-America-2007/The-American-Arcanum:-Porcelain-and-the-Alchemical-Tradition

 

But a really great book about the discovery for Meissen Porcelain is "the Arcanum" . Great story about the man held captive until he discovered porcelain.

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glazenerd    816

I knew it was Germany, knew it was Meissen; but off by four score years.

 

Porcelain has been around since the Ming Dynasty. So this thread opens up the door to make a point: 100 years from now, potters will being going over it researching what we did with clay during our time. They will look at the pieces we made, discuss the things that influenced us, and come up with some term to describe our period. You never know; 500 years from now someone might dig up a piece you made buried under the foundation of a house that burned centuries earlier.

 

Now this would make a good historical QoTW: in a single word; describe the period of pottery we are currently working/living in?

 

Nerd

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JBaymore    1,432

You never know; 500 years from now someone might dig up a piece you made buried under the foundation of a house that burned centuries earlier.

 

This is why you should smash work that is not something that you'd want your name attached to. 

 

You even owe it to your whole CULTURE to do this.  ;)

 

best,

 

...............john

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What?    83

 

You never know; 500 years from now someone might dig up a piece you made buried under the foundation of a house that burned centuries earlier.

 

This is why you should smash work that is not something that you'd want your name attached to. 

 

You even owe it to your whole CULTURE to do this.  ;)

 

best,

 

...............john

 

John,

 

Is this why there are so many pottery Shreds/Shards in world? A lot of bad pots/ potters? Joking of course. As a cub scout we went out with one of the troop member's dad who was a Pueblo Indian in New Mexico. Where he took us was not far from Albuquerque and there were tons of shards. White clay body black design. Just look in and around the base of the shrubs and the animal burrows pieces everywhere some maybe half the size of my hand. I always wondered how old some of those shards were and how many people lived in that area and for how long. Another Native American woman I worked with said her tribe only used old pottery shards to create and fashion new pottery. Pretty cool Stuff.

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JBaymore    1,432

Is this why there are so many pottery Shreds/Shards in world? A lot of bad pots/ potters? Joking of course. As a cub scout we went out with one of the troop member's dad who was a Pueblo Indian in New Mexico. Where he took us was not far from Albuquerque and there were tons of shards. White clay body black design. Just look in and around the base of the shrubs and the animal burrows pieces everywhere some maybe half the size of my hand. I always wondered how old some of those shards were and how many people lived in that area and for how long. Another Native American woman I worked with said her tribe only used old pottery shards to create and fashion new pottery. Pretty cool Stuff.

 

The Native American potters typically ground up their old "failed" pots and use them for "temper" in the newly mixed clay.... which we typically call "grog".  I spent some time in the US Southwest as a very young man ... and once had the opportunity to explore some old sites that had pottery shards ("sherds" apparently  if you are an archeologist) everywhere.  Got to go thru some old Anasazi ruins that were not open to the public after traveling a long time on horseback.  This was before I started studying ceramics.  I have a small collection of Native American pottery that I collected back in the 70's.  Collecting that stuff eventually gave way to Japanese pieces though.

 

I've been places that were/are traditional kiln sites in Japan where the ground is basically crunched up ceramics.  And places there where you can find Jomon and Haniwa shard pieces almost with any foraging in the earth most anywhere.  I have some old Jomon shards that are about 5000 to 7000 years old.

 

Our world's ceramic history is SO deep and interesting!

 

best,

 

...............john

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Pres    896

My sister, Janet Johnson, a curator at the Pennsylvania State Museum sent me a note after I sent the article link to her. She states that the first attempt at porcelain was at Bonnin & Morris factory in Philadelphia. She also said that the museum had the best example of the work until this recent article and discovery.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

best,

Pres

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post-894-0-44843900-1483830529_thumb.jpg

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glazenerd    816

 

Our world's ceramic history is SO deep and interesting!

Probably because pottery is the one thing that traces ancient cultures, and keeps a permanent record. When archaeologists dig ancient sites; they are always looking for and using pottery to date it.

 

Nerd

 

So again I will ask: what history will you leave behind?

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Pres    896

Harrisburg, PA, State capital. It is the Pennsylvania State Museum at 300 North St, Harrisburg, PA 17120. She oversees several archaeological sites during the year, and has several exhibits that she has to set up at many venues. This weekend it was the State Farm Show.

 

 

 

 

best,

Pres

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oldlady    1,323

i have always wondered if the pots dug up in a single area were made by a single potter or a variety of them.  nobody seems to take into account the skill level of the ancient potters so how do they determine that pot A found at one site is actually from a different place and not just made by someone just starting out?

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

Old Lady,

I have been to a number of AAA (American Archeologists Association) meetings on current research in Ceramics. You would be amazed at how the dissect and measure pots and compare them. Sometimes the minutia like the shape and dimension of a lip defines the location and period of the pots.

I can't agree with that 100%

Marcia

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I grew up in the small town of Riverton, NJ, right across the Delaware river from Philadelphia.  A creek that fed into the river had white clay deposits, and I heard tell that a few local people in the 1960s would gather and use it.  There were only a few pockets here and there in the 1990s when I started learning ceramics, but when the water washed away the dirt, new pockets would be exposed.  Unfortunately, I didn't know enough about testing to do anything with it, but I've always wondered if it was a kind of kaolin ball clay.  I know that defies logic, but ball clay is basically secondary clay, and kaolin comes from feldspar that has broken down. Today, I live along the kaolin belt in Georgia, and there's lots of exposed kaolin that gets water washed. This NJ clay was fairly plastic. I once found an article about porcelain clay from northern NJ, but it didn't explain much.  I saw this article about the porcelain when it came out and immediately wondered if this porcelain was the same type that I found.  Next time I go back, I'm going to look, and if I find any, I'm going to test the living daylights out of it!

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