Magnet Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Howdy all. I'm looking at picking up a used Paragon TNF 273, and wondering if anyone has experience, good or bad, with this model? I have no experience with Paragons at all, which is somewhat of a drawback, but the price is right... Thanks for any perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 If it's in good working condition, it will work just fine. All kilns have their good points and bad, but they all get to temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 I own four of them, rather fond of them. This model has 3: brick, sectional, with 12000 watts of power. Rated for cone 10. Retail is $3200.00 Gauge the usage, condition of brick, elements, etc: to set fair asking price. Check the thermocouple, ask for a quick test fire. If you own a voltage meter, you can check it out precisely: most do not own one. Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Thanks a heap for the feedback. This one has a claimed 10-15 firing hours, from a small store that's going out of business. Asking 1600 with no furniture or vent. I do have a voltmeter; thanks for that suggestion... I've only done hands-on firings with gas and wood in the past but am setting up a little home studio with this one. @Nerd: Any quirks I should know about , besides what I'll find in the manual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Is that 3 for a 3 zone or 3 phase? If it 3 phase make sure you have that-call paragon and ask them Offer them less for cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 3 = 3 zone Quirks/ one.. have to make sure the thermocouple leads on the front of the terminal block stay separated.They are so close together often times; during movement they will touch, or high heat expands them enough to touch: which give false readouts. nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 I would have thought 3 for 3" brick. The pictures show a kiln only about 22" deep -- http://www.paragonweb.com/TNF273.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Naive here -- what's 3 zone? Thanks for the solid advice and note on the thermocouple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 3 zone means it has 3 pyrometers hooked up to the electronic controller. The controller adjusts the firing of the elements to keep an even temp throughout the kiln. Have a look inside the kiln, if you see three thermocouples then it’s 3 zone. 1 thermocouple and it’s a single zone. From Bruce's link it looks like 3 zone is an add on for this kiln and 1 zone is standard. The link also says it has 3†thick walls and lid. (I would double check it is single phase unless you have the capacity to fire 3 phase as most kiln manufactures offer both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 I would have thought 3 for 3" brick. The pictures show a kiln only about 22" deep -- http://www.paragonweb.com/TNF273.cfm That's usually what they mean. For a long time kilns were always built with 2.5" brick. When they started making them with 3" brick most companies just added a 3 to the model number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 This is a 1 zone -- 1 thermocouple Single phase Yes, 3" brick on this one. Gonna check it out in a couple days... Any other opinions or concerns for this kiln? Big thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 the shelves are heavy if that matters. may not have shelves included and maybe only half shelves if they are. sounds like a good possibility for you, hope it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 "Any other opinions or concerns for this kiln?" Check the condition of the bricks -- for any broken bricks, bricks with glaze drops, etc. Check the elements/holders -- Check to see how the top sits on the kiln -- any large gaps? does hinge work properly? Ask to see the firing log for the kiln -- that will give you an idea of prior use and type of use Ask when elements, relays, thermocouples were last replaced and how many firings they currently have on them Check the plug for signs of overheating, fatigue, discoloration, etc. Ask that the kiln be turned on an hour before you get there so you can see if the elements, etc. work. Make sure you have the right electrical hook up on your end. Check the voltage -- schools/community studios in warehouses may be on 208v while your home is 220v. Ask if it comes with furniture -- shelves, posts, etc. Depending on age, ask what the kiln was fired to cone wise and what types of glazes ere used in it (hopefully, no lead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Thanks for the detailed considerations. As noted above, the kiln has a claimed 10-15 firing hours, from a small store-studio that's going out of business. Asking 1600 with no furniture or vent. I was told that it was bisque fired and glazed fired only a few times to cone 6 tops. It ended up being too big for the space and was moved to storage... Though, I was just told that it's stored on a pallet in the owner's warehouse, and doesn't have access to power. She said that I'd see that it's in near-new condition, but won't be able to plug it in. I understand about kiln brick and electricity separately so I think that I can judge the condition of the kiln itself OK, but there's no way for me to tell with the processor is broken, or something else that I'm not thinking of... Should I agree to buy only if I can plug it in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 I would get in writing that you can return it or get a partial refund if the controller doesn't work once you get it plugged in. A new controller from Paragon will run you about $375. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted January 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Many thanks for the feedback and suggestions, folks. I've arranged to inspect/pick up the kiln this coming Saturday, as it's a bit of a drive... It's a bit of a risk because the kiln in being sold "as is". The owner says that I'll be able to see that it was used little, and there's no reason that the controller wouldn't work. I've asked for a quick test, but power is apparently not available -- unfortunately. Of course, that makes me a bit nervous, but I suppose it's also true that brand new kilns can fail as well. Of course, I'll inspect it closely for any signs of overuse/damage. If there's anything else I should look for, I'd love to hear. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Of course, that makes me a bit nervous, but I suppose it's also true that brand new kilns can fail as well. Brand new kilns have warranties..... Open up the control box and inspect the controller circuit board. If anything is obviously broken or looks odd, walk away or ask for a discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 power is apparently not available -- Take a portable generator with you ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted January 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Ok -- thanks folks. It's starting to seem more and more foolhardy to buy this without seeing a test run. I'll look into taking a 240v generator -- as that's the only power option. Otherwise, the peace of mind provided by buying a new kiln with a warranty would be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Chances are it's fine, but be prepared to spend another $300 if it's not. I'd try to get the price down a bit just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Longer Member Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Boards and elements cost twice that of a comparable Skutt and Paragon bricks are more fragile than a Skutt too. I've had poor customer service from both Paragon and Orton and do not like Orton boards in the least. Skip it and buy a used anything else, you'll be happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Paragon elements can be pricey, but it depends on which model you have. Most are comparable in price to Skutt or L&L, but a few are high. It's easy enough to check the price of replacement parts on the Paragon web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Longer Member Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Paragon elements can be pricey, but it depends on which model you have. Most are comparable in price to Skutt or L&L, but a few are high. It's easy enough to check the price of replacement parts on the Paragon web site. TNF 273 (8.1 c.u.f.t 240/1) top/bottom: $112, middle: $78 = $380 a set Skutt 1218 Complete Element Set: $196 (from online distributor, also 240/1 and slightly smaller at 6.6 c.u.f.t but that's about as comparable to the 273 as Skutt gets for a wide squatty kiln) That's $184 dollars I'd rather keep in my pocket (or put towards installation for folks that would rather not tackle the job which takes more care and time on a Skutt). Looks like they've come down on the board from ~$450 to $366. Cheapest I've seen a Skutt board new was ~$250. I hope the new touch screen drives prices down further. IMO Skutt makes affordable products....and Paragon makes money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 You can get the same Paragon controller directly from the manufacturer, Bartlett, for about $240. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Longer Member Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Neil, I've never seen the Orton board listed (Sentry 2.0) on their site, is that something only available over the phone? I'm surprised Orton would allow that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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