Opinion: Using A Non Glossy Liner? Tested Durability.

[Joseph Fireborn]

So I have a cup that I glazed in a brownish cream liner a few months ago. I have been testing the liner glaze for a few months by putting in lemon juice, dishwater detergent, and vinegar. I have also put a pocket knife to it and ran it back and forth over the surface a bunch of times. I can't seem to get any cutting marks on it or anything. The actual glaze is a glossy glaze, but on the inside of cups with a slowed cooling the glaze goes satin. 

 

Now I like this glaze I lot personally because it really goes well with the glaze colors I am using. It makes for a nice liner contrast and around the rim it really doesn't break up the presentation like most liners do.

 

So my question is do a lot of you use or have you tried non glossy liners. Did it effect sales? I know my wife says she likes glossy liners better. But I have seen a lot of pots with satin liners that seem to sell well. 

 

I didn't like non glossy liners because of the lack of durability, but this one has really stood the test of time, so far! 

 

Thoughts? I have bought a few pots with satin liners and it doesn't bother me at all, but wanted to get some opinions from the pros.

 

I don't plan on using this clay again, but it looks the same on brownstone without the spots.

 

 

To show the contrast of the outside:

 

[glazenerd]

The sad fact is: glossy is equated to "clean.". Appreciate the color, and the aesthetic, might be a tall high to climb. However, someone has to be the first to climb it at some point.

 

Nerd

[Joe_L]

Looks great to me. My wife doesn't like shiny either (probably why she married me).

Joe

[Pres]

I have never liked glossy, as decoration get lost in gloss. However, when I started out I used same inside and out. Then decorated outside. Over the years I found that my Bristol type glaze really did not hold up well. The satin matt got effected by time, foods inside and liquids. So I went to a glossy liner, and then left the Bristol behind entirely. That said, If a glaze would hold up to vinegar, dishwashing detergent solutions, and was tested for total release of materials, I would definitely jump on it. Hope yours works that way for you, I think there are those out there that would love it, and others that would be doubtful of it-up to you to make the proof that it is a good and durable glaze.

 

 

best,

Pres 

[Dick White]

You have several issues going on simultaneously here. Some people like a white or very light colored liner so they can quickly see the level of a darker colored drink (e.g., coffee or tea) in the cup. And as Nerd said, some equate glossy with clean, perhaps with good reason. Try leaving some coffee in the bottom until it has dried and then scrub it out. Do this a number of times as see if it continues to scrub clean. The microscopic irregularity of the matte surface may be a dirt catcher even if the glaze is stable. Finally, you say it doesn't show marks from your pocket knife. The knife blade is probably a harder steel than the average spoon, and so it won't abrade on the matte surface like the tip of a spoon. Spend a few minutes each time you test it giving it a vigorous stirring with a regular teaspoon, with lots of across the cup movements as well as around and around the edge. Give it a year's worth of real-life stirring over the course of a few days/weeks and then decide if there are no cutlery marks.

[Joseph Fireborn]

I have only tested for a few months. Leaving the solutions in there for weeks at a time until they evaporated or dried up, I can't tell any difference in surface between the top part which has had no solutions touch it and the bottom part. The color looks same as day one. Also the surface is still resistant to scratching. 

 

I don't know that over years it would last, but I have been looking at peoples dishes when I visit their houses and it seems that even commercial ware dishes have scratches and crazing. Even the expensive stuff. Our dishes at home are like this and they were given to us and we were told they were expensive. I don't know for sure that they were. My cream liner that I have used in the past is the most durable glaze I have tried that I liked as a liner, but it just doesn't go well with my new colors.

 

I wonder if those testing labs can push wear and tear on a pot to see how the surface looks. Do you get the pot back? I need a way to age a pot like 2 years in a few months any ideas?

[Joseph Fireborn]

You have several issues going on simultaneously here. Some people like a white or very light colored liner so they can quickly see the level of a darker colored drink (e.g., coffee or tea) in the cup. And as Nerd said, some equate glossy with clean, perhaps with good reason. Try leaving some coffee in the bottom until it has dried and then scrub it out. Do this a number of times as see if it continues to scrub clean. The microscopic irregularity of the matte surface may be a dirt catcher even if the glaze is stable. Finally, you say it doesn't show marks from your pocket knife. The knife blade is probably a harder steel than the average spoon, and so it won't abrade on the matte surface like the tip of a spoon. Spend a few minutes each time you test it giving it a vigorous stirring with a regular teaspoon, with lots of across the cup movements as well as around and around the edge. Give it a year's worth of real-life stirring over the course of a few days/weeks and then decide if there are no cutlery marks.

 

I like the idea of leaving a darker coffee in there for a few weeks to see if color changes. That is a good idea. As far as the cutlery goes I thought a knife would have been the most harsh thing you could put to a glaze. But I will get a spoon and rub it across a few hundred times. Thanks for the ideas.

[Dick White]

The notion of cutlery marking is not that the cutlery damages the ceramic surface (it shouldn't unless you have diamond-tipped kitchen utensils...) but rather the opposite - the harder ceramic surface abrades the softer metal cutlery and leaves a small streak of metal on the ceramic surface. The cutlery will slide over a glossy glaze surface while dragging on a matte surface.

[Joseph Fireborn]

The notion of cutlery marking is not that the cutlery damages the ceramic surface (it shouldn't unless you have diamond-tipped kitchen utensils...) but rather the opposite - the harder ceramic surface abrades the softer metal cutlery and leaves a small streak of metal on the ceramic surface. The cutlery will slide over a glossy glaze surface while dragging on a matte surface.

 

This is very informative. I rubbed a spoon over the inside of the cup for a while and it did in fact leave some marks. So yea.. play that theme song... the more you knoooowwwww.... 

 

I was able to wipe the marks with my thumb and they disappeared. But that does show the glaze is useless for bowls and plates. I will probably just stick to my white/greyish liner for my new stuff and my old cream for the rest I guess.

[Kaolinwasher]

I did a show , and had my pots glazed with dark brown albany  slip , and i got yelled at by aver a dozen costumers who did not like the dark brown , inside glaze  and i sold non. so i switched to a translucent white.  they said you can't see how deep the coffee is  and that you can't see dirt , they all liked white   now personally i think your inside glaze is  just awesome , and it would not bother me one bit .  but i think us potters get more refined , but joe blow likes those plastic looking colors. to them i say go by some tuperware then  i hate making smiley cups and things that look like plastic . . One more thing i have noticed that white glazes that have Zercon to give the white will turn gray from the stainless steel in the forks and knifes and spoons and the pot ends up looking like junk  Gunnar

[Joseph Fireborn]

do people really worry about dirt in their cups. i drink out of the same cup for days before i wash it. I mean i rinse it with water only in the sink every day when i refil it in the morning, but really are we that concerned about dirt in our cups? lol.. 

 

but yea thanks for the information, i figured that would be the case. I will stick to my two off white colors.

[Pugaboo]

When I started making mugs I used dark interiors that matched or contrasted beautifully with the exteriors and everybody commented they couldn't see the color of their coffee in a dark cup to know if the cream was right, or how much coffee was left in the mug, or if the mug was dirty or not. I had no idea it was such a big deal so I listened and went with a glossy white (boring ugh) on all my mugs and now they fly off the shelves.

 

I have said it before.... people are weird.

 

Terry

[ayjay]

I'm a white liner sort of person for cups/mugs, don't like anything else.

 

When I add milk to tea (or coffee) I like to be starting from a consistent base colourwise to know how much to add, it looks a different colour with different coloured liners.

 

 I always wash my mugs before re-using, but, I do like cold tea  and this can cause a lot of staining to be left in the vessel, I like to clean that off before starting again - it's not as if potters have a shortage of mugs is it? 

[Joseph Fireborn]

Thanks for all the post you wonderful people. White/Grey liner it is.

[Marcia Selsor]

I like your glaze. I refer satin matts on functional ware and if you are not getting scratches on it, so much the better.

Marcia

[Joseph Fireborn]

I like the glaze a lot too. But it isn't scratch resistant. To knife it is, but if I rub a spoon really hard on it it has marks, but the marks wipe off with your thumb without any liquid or anything, but still. 

[glazenerd]

Joseph:

 

Raising the alumina levels in your glaze recipe will help resolve cutlery mark issues: Alumina = glaze strength-abrasion resistance.

 

Nerd

[Magnolia Mud Research]

If rubbing a spoon over the glaze leaves marks on the glaze that can be wiped off with your finger, the glaze is scratching the spoon. 

 

This implies that the glaze is rough and  harder than the material  of the spoon.

 

Look carefully at the spoon to see if there is 'something missing' from the spoon.

[Joseph Fireborn]

If rubbing a spoon over the glaze leaves marks on the glaze that can be wiped off with your finger, the glaze is scratching the spoon. 

 

This implies that the glaze is rough and  harder than the material  of the spoon.

 

Look carefully at the spoon to see if there is 'something missing' from the spoon.

 

Is this a good or bad thing. Cause I thought any marking was looked down upon. I don't really understand ceramics though being a nub and all.

[Kaolinwasher]

joseph, do a trial bring 10 cups with the brown liner and 10 white liner cups and set them all out and see what sells 1st . 

[Joseph Fireborn]

The thing is I don't want to sell cups that wont stand the test of time as a liner glaze. The outside can change slightly I am ok with that, but the inside must remain strong! I didn't realize that my rough surfaces were not marking but in fact wearing down the spoon. Makes me rethink everything.