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I'm Never Wedging Clay Again!


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My new Bailey MSV25T mixer pugmill arrived, has had its electrical needs met and I tested it for the first time this afternoon....

 

OMP! (Oh My Pug!) I am never never never wedging clay again! No more back pain no more wrist pain no more pain in the rump wedging!

 

I am attaching a photo, please excuse the mess I had to move stuff all over the place to get it to fit, then had a festival, orders, etc so haven't mopped this week. I still need to add a shelf or 2 underneath and get the studio reset up in it new configuration as well.

 

Once the studio is back in shape I'll take pictures of the whole place so you all can see and post them in my gallery.

 

T

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that's a mess?  :blink:

 

little tip, put the piece of foam that comes in the cone boxes under the nozzle end, the clay when leaving the pugger will slide along the board without leaving a streak of clay on the board.

 

Congrats on your new purchase!

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Thanks Min! I will give the foam trick a try since it might work even better than what I tested today.

 

Today I tried covering the board in plastic and then I gave it a spritz with my spray bottle so the clay pug will glide right along.

 

Ps.. and yes it's a mess just look at that floor! I'm just glad you can't see behind me in the photo since I had to take that shelf down and shorten it to install the pugmill most that was on it is stacked behind me on a table.

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Oh @Pugaboo I so happy for you! I'm still pugging at school and hauling things home, but I completely understand your enthusiasm for healthier back, wrists, etc. I wire-cut my clay into (approx) 18" lengths as it poops out of the pugger.  Those pugs weight 4 to 6 pounds each and are easy for me to wrap up and store.

 

Count me in the happy-but-envious crowd,

-Paul

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Thank you everyone! I've been saving for awhile and was super close to having enough was figuring maybe next June. Talking it over with my accountant, aka husband, he suggested borrowing the shortage for just a few months so I could get it bought during this year. The thinking is for taxes since I added a second kiln this year and had to replace my computer system as well, add on the pugmill and I'll do a loss this year, but can't do a loss this year and then next as well. So that's what I did! Now have to sell stuff and pay him back by June!

 

Mark.... it's messier than it's ever been. But I'll get to remedying that today, never realized how much reorganizing this was going to take. The pugmill sits where my wheel used to sit. The wheel is now sitting where my filing cabinets used to sit, the filing cabinets are currently residing in the bathroom. It was a chain reaction every time I had to move one thing a dozen more down the line had to be moved as well.

 

Paul, do you see the black lines I've drawn on the plastic? They are marked at 6 inch increments so I know when to slice off the Pug to get close to the same size each time. I am doing 15 inches currently since 3 of them will fit nicely into my reused clay bags leaving just enough room to fold and clip the ends shut.

 

I'm writing the date each bag was pugged on the end since I plan to set these aside for a few month before I use them. From reading up on pugged clay it seems that pugging then letting it age together for awhile results in a better clay that has less of a tendency to be "short". Not sure if this is true or not so chime in those of you that know!

 

Oh goody I have more clay to pug today! Never thought I would look forward to reclaiming clay, LOL. Off to the studio I go!

 

T

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Guest JBaymore

............ never realized how much reorganizing this was going to take. The pugmill sits where my wheel used to sit. The wheel is now sitting where my filing cabinets used to sit, the filing cabinets are currently residing in the bathroom. It was a chain reaction every time I had to move one thing a dozen more down the line had to be moved as well.

 

I'm going thru that exact kin d of stuff in my studio now.  Making some changes..... that entail other changes.... that entail OTHER changes.... that entail......... (ad nauseum).

 

Congrats on the pugmill.

 

best,

 

...............john

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Great purchase, I'm jealous!  At the HS, I would pug up all of the clay left at the end of the school year, place it  in 50 gal buckets, cover with a damp towel, and a lid. In the Fall this was the best of clay! I tried to use it only for the throwers, as the boxed clay that came in the Summer was good enough for the handbuilders. By the time we got rid of the bucket clay, the boxed clay was great also.

 

 

best,

Pres

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Congrats Pugaboo!

 

When y'all reclaim clay, do you add something to the clay to make it throw better, so as not to be short? I don't mind reclaiming but have found the stuff just doesn't throw worth a nickel. After drying out a bit on plaster it sits in plastic for at least a month but it is extremely hard to pull up. Even for plates it is hard to push out to the diameter needed. This clay winds up being used to throw the test tile rings. Or thrown in a hole that is eroding, like all the shards wind up.

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Paul, do you see the black lines I've drawn on the plastic? They are marked at 6 inch increments so I know when to slice off the Pug to get close to the same size each time. I am doing 15 inches currently since 3 of them will fit nicely into my reused clay bags leaving just enough room to fold and clip the ends shut.

 

I'm writing the date each bag was pugged on the end since I plan to set these aside for a few month before I use them. From reading up on pugged clay it seems that pugging then letting it age together for awhile results in a better clay that has less of a tendency to be "short". Not sure if this is true or not so chime in those of you that know!

I didn't notice your measuring system, but it makes perfectly good sense.  And YES...The clay that I am pugging this weekend won't see a wheel head until February or March.  I don't have any actual data that would support the 'let it age' concept, but from personal experience the clay just seems to be more homogeneous/consistent when it is allowed to rest a while after pugging.

-Paul

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Why aged clay is smoother?

 

Stoneware in particular changes characteristics over time, but all clays do to some degree. The common thought is because of bacterial growth (fungus/mold, etc. Bacterial growth is a reflection of how much organics is in the clay itself (ball clay primarily). If you are getting a lot of bacterial growth on your clay: it indicates high levels of organics: which means you need to bisq slightly higher, or with a hold to burn them off completely.

 

The "aged" effect is actually due to the clay particle itself. On a molecular level, clay particles look like Swiss cheese: porous. When you first mix clay it is all soft and gooey because the water is binding the clay particles together (on the surface). However, when you bend or twist it: it has the tendency to snap because it is "short." As time passes: molecular H20 penetrates into the molecular pores of the clay: and then the full plasticity level of the clay is obtained. (WOPL= water of plasticity). You will also notice a change in consistency from very soft when first pugged, to various degrees of firmness as time passes. The clay has not lost moisture content, it has absorbed moisture content. Which is also the reason blunged clay is more plastic than pugged clay: because mechanical forces speed up the process of absorption.

 

Normally within 30 days there is a marked difference, which improves over the next 90-120 days. After about 6-8 months, the process begins to reverse because the clay is actually starting to loose water: dehydration. Absorbing water is hydration, losing water is de (loss of).

 

Nerd

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i am supposed to be driving south right now but missed it. will try tomorrow.

 

thanks, nerd.  i use my clay out of the box for slab work.  the stuff that winds up in the bucket to pug is what i use to throw.  i like it right out of the pugmill because i put slurry into the mill.  the leftovers of slabs,  (think christmas cookies that get cut, and what happens to the scrap) get put into the mill after a slight dip in slurry so i have all the ingredients that were originally in it.  comes out exactly the way i like to use it for throwing.

 

a few years ago, i read somewhere that i should add ball clay to the recycle because it gets stripped away when originally used.  so, i tried adding ball clay while pugging.  i think that was the clay that tore so nicely when i made slabs with some of it.     i have since realized that the statement is true if the clay comes from a wheelthrowing potter not a handbuilder.  so, i just use slurry.  

 

might add some ball clay and make more slabs to get the tearing that sold so well.    hmmmmmmmmmmm

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a few years ago, i read somewhere that i should add ball clay to the recycle because it gets stripped away when originally used.  so, i tried adding ball clay while pugging.  i think that was the clay that tore so nicely when i made slabs with some of it.     i have since realized that the statement is true if the clay comes from a wheelthrowing potter not a handbuilder.  so, i just use slurry.  

 

might add some ball clay and make more slabs to get the tearing that sold so well.    hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Not sure I would do this for clay for functional pots. You are going to change the silica : alumina : fluxes ratios. A little bit of macaloid or bentonite (think ball clay on steroids) will do the same thing without changing the chemistry as much since you use far less of those.

 

Have a safe drive.

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Congratulations!!! the pugs must be happy that they now have a namesake in the studio. i remember reading about Warren McKenzie being excited about his pugmill as he said it allowed him to continue with clay. 

 

CM March 1997 Studio and Showroom Organization by Dick Lehman shows how ingeniously he has set up his pugmill and how it cuts the clay into the pieces he needs. 

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are bagged clay pugged clay? or bunged clay?

 

instead of pugmill if you wedge clay from throwing scraps do the same principles apply for aging clay as a pugmill?

 

what is the aging philosophy for hand wedged clay scraps?

 

now it makes sense why the japanese gathered clay for the next generation.  there is no question of dehydration in damp caves. 

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Copied from Stoneware Limit.. thread.

 

The issue of drying, hardening, and water retention in reclaimed clay is a different issue. It comes back to the WOPL (water of plasticity) principle of ball clay. It is the ball clay in stoneware (primarily) that governs water absorption: a ball clay with 33WOPL retains less water, and a ball clay with 38WOPL retains much more. So the effect you are speaking of is determined by the amount of ball clay (ultra-fines) that is lost.

 

How do you determine the level of ball clay the recipe had to begin with?    The Cream Test

 

When you throw the original clay: how much cream comes up and on your hands?

 

Coats just the inside of your palms and oozes through your fingers over time.... lower levels.

Coats your palms, and oozes; have to clean a few time while throwing.... mid levels

Oozes quickly and constantly cleaning off hands....... high levels.

 

Most of the reclaimed scraps is from trimming; which has been stripped of the fines; which includes ball clay, silica, and feldspar. That would alter the properties of recycled clay: because it is the ball clay primarily that holds moisture in a clay body.

 

The fix:  blend 80% ball clay (Om4 or FHC), 10% silica, and 10% feldspar. Add 1 cup (dry) per gallon of slurry. The testing comes when you throw it after it has been reclaimed: how much cream comes up when you throw? Adjust to suit your taste.

 

Nerd

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Well everyone I LOVE IT, absolutely love it. I am so happy I saved every penny I could so I could get it, it made sitting in 90+ degree temperatures for every festival I did this year worth it. It will make working extra hard the next 6 months to finish paying for it worth it.

 

I have already reclaimed/pugged 200 pounds of clay. I have to admit though that doing it didn't hurt at all! LOL I got to where I wouldn't wedge any of my scraps because if I wedged anything more than just the smallest softest amount, my hands, wrists and back would hurt so bad for days afterwards that it was torture to be in the studio. Carpel tunnel, arthritis and back surgery are the pits let me tell ya..... but then a lot of you already know that.

 

Everyone kept saying just throw it out... I can't do it... I tried ireaaly did and then had to fish it back out of the garbage... my dead Russian grandmother was screeching in my ear about waste. So I ended up just bagging it and stacking it in the corner and pretending it would one day be wedged when I could do so and then not work in the studio for a week.... well a year later and I had a growing mountain. I've run 200 pounds through so far and I'm not even halfway through the pile plus I have two 5 gallon buckets of reclaimed dry scraps sitting on my porch. Feel rather ashamed to admit that if I am honest, but now I have a solution and once I get caught up with all this past stuff it won't be a problem in the future since I will pug scraps at the end of each day.

 

I know it was an extravagant expense but it's already making my studio life better and once I get the extruder attachments for it I am hoping things get even better. I hope to be working in clay and growing my pottery business for the next 25 years and this machine should more than do that. As Mark C has said in the past there is more involved in the decision to buy a pugmill than just the price of the clay.

 

Terry

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