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The Price Of Art


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#1 Chilly

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 11:03 AM

I will never understand what makes a person spend a stupid amount of money of art.

 

Watched a programme about the auction house Christies.  

 

This:gallery_59202_704_509517.png

 

Sold for $2.8 million.

 

What on earth makes a piece of blue paper/canvas worth that much.  We should get some hospital patients painting their walls and selling them to fund the NHS.

 


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#2 JohnnyK

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 11:57 AM

The value of art is in the eye of the purchaser...

Your comment is reminiscent of an email I had gotten regarding a world famous violinist playing a world famous tune on a world famous $2M Stradivarius on a subway platform in NYC and the majority of people in the station ignored him to the horror of some pointy head critics who thought their (the passers-by) reaction was blasphemous when just a few folks put a few dollars in his collection plate.



#3 Mark C.

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 12:59 PM

You must first understand why people like to drink the coolaid-some like to some never do.


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#4 JBaymore

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:06 PM

First of all........ ANYTHING is worth whatever the market will pay for it. 

 

Is a Mercedes car "worth" what people pay for it?   Is a Big Mac "worth" what people pay for it?

 

Only the purchaser can decide on that fact.  If you can't afford a Mercedes or a Big Mac......... then you can't even consider whether it is "worth" the money.  That colors your approach to the object.  For some folks... a Big Mac is unattainable.  For some folks the Mercedes is unattainable.  For some folks the Klein is unattainable.

 

If you have real MONEY (as in capital  M ... O....N....E....Y).....history has proven that artwork is one of the absolute BEST investments you can make.  Beats stocks and bonds.  So many affluent folks buy art not for the appreciation of the piece itself (although that might be a side issue)... but for the potential appreciation in value. 

 

Artwork from a specific artist is something that is not at ALL "replaceable".  An artist makes a fixed number of works in his or her style in a lifetime.  When he or she is gone... any new work is also gone.  IF that artist is considered important (separate subject) ...... as they get older their work tends to appreciate (as well as get better, one hopes).  When they die.... it seriously appreciates.

 

The important part of that investment potential is to "buy right".  So there needs to be a consensus that the particular artist is "important".  The art world has to have recognized the artist AS important in some manner for some reason.  Then investors will see the pieces AS investments.  And people like Christies make a killing on the commissions.

 

Places like Christies cater to investment types.  To investors........ apparently Klein is considered a decent investment. 

 

http://www.tate.org....yves-klein-1418

 

best,

 

.......................john


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Former Guest Professor, Wuxi Institute of Arts and Science, Yixing, China

Former President and Past President; Potters Council
 

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

http://www.nhia.edu/...ty/john-baymore


#5 Mark C.

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:28 PM

I get investing as I have investments -many of them

I get the big mac as I have one-I also know the moment you buy a new computer its old technology by the time you get home.An its value goes down never up

Art investing must be a small knowledge market as I get owning a Monet will go up in value but knowing less known name artist must be a an art in itself making these picks.The artist for whatever reasons art value must be considered improving with time.

I wonder how this actually works especially if artist is alive?

This must be a complex set of markers.


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#6 bciskepottery

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 02:05 PM

Attached File  chris_k_foster.jpg   18.08KB   0 downloads

Seems ya don't get the big bucks until you're dead. Which means some folks, maybe those who appreciate art and buy early and often in promising artists, can make money when they decide to sell (and for what ever reason they decide to sell) -- but paying $50M for a Picasso really doesn't do much for Pablo. And, the auctioneers always get a healthy cut.

#7 RonSa

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 03:32 PM

Ansel Adams photograph named "Moonrise, Hernandez" sold for $609,600 in 1948, he was asked to comment and he replied."Don't they know I'm not dead yet?"

 

I'm going open a 25# bag of clay and throw its contents on a slab of cement, let it dry and crack then name it "Promising". It should be worth high 5 to low 6 figures.

 

Any takers? Get it while I'm still alive.


Ron


#8 Sputty

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 03:37 PM

Chilly - I don't know what you do on cold, winter nights, but there is some serious, heavy-duty reading to be done around and about the subject you have raised.

 

If you can plough through this little article here...

 

 
...and this little article here...
 
 
...you might like to ask for this as a Christmas present...
 
 
(and then pass it on to me when you've finished it!)


#9 SydneyGee

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 12:24 PM

Honestly, I myself get confused when I see people who are an average human being create a sketch or doodle, die, and have their work suddenly worth millions because of it's back story. I have a background in fine art, and have had my work in galleries. My husband and I frequently attend art sermons, art fairs, museums, and galleries, and quite enjoy seeing others (sometimes strange and unappealing but nonetheless interesting) work.

 

One gallery in downtown LA had many student/young/learning artists but also a fair amount of work that had been produced in the 1800's by unskilled average citizens whose collectors were claiming to be art. One person's work in particular stood out to us based on the fact that the "artist" was in fact, not an artist. He was an average man of basic undeveloped skill who had a difficult life as a slave on a plantation. Because of his backstory, his stick figures of animals on newsprint suddenly became the cat's meow when he passed away. And on the other hand you have aspiring artists who also were slaves that were completely drowned out from this fame, and never received anything for their talent. Why does this happen? I am not sure even art historians and scholars know.

 

And yes, I wholly believe that many "art" collectors and those with serious money collect art to brag about it's price, fame, and may eventually sell it once it appreciates in value. Because art has no tactical value, only value that which is placed in it. Because of my love of "use" and tactical value, I have been slowly moving from fine art to functional crafts (although I still do quite love to paint and draw and the like) :rolleyes:

 

 

@Sputty Those are wonderful articles, I especially enjoyed the first one.

 

 

If you can plough through this little article here...

 


 

 

 

Might as well admit it, i'm addicted to clay....


#10 Chilly

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 02:47 PM

It all just reminds me of that children's story about the Emperor's new clothes.  One day, a child will look at all that "art" and tell it as it really is.


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#11 RonSa

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:25 PM

"My childhood was spent learning to paint like an adult, and then the rest of my life was spent learning to paint like a child." - Pablo Picasso

 

I have an art degree too Sydney and spent 30+ years designing for clients. There were times that I was following my client's direction and created things that I wouldn't put my name on. But they loved it and paid me. I never had a desire to be a starving artist so I did what it took to put food on the table, keep a roof over our heads and send the kids to college.

 

This is why I'm so excited about clay, this a new path for me to learn and not having worry about pleasing a client. Doing this with my wife is just icing on the cake.


Ron


#12 glazenerd

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 04:17 PM

I will give you a quarter if you take the blue artwork down.. it hurts my eyes.

 

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#13 Min

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 06:03 PM

I will give you a quarter if you take the blue artwork down.. it hurts my eyes.

 

Nerd

 

You just proved a point, blue sells!!!!! - giggle ;)   (whether one likes it or not )


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#14 terrim8

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 06:53 PM

That's crazy - 2.8 million but I can understand why people want to collect art. Maybe not that example though. I like going to art galleries, especially in large US cities that have extensive collections. I wouldn't want the job of curator/buyer ! 



#15 JBaymore

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 10:43 PM

It is hard for most of us here on CAD to fathom and understand at a gut level.... but for some people, $2 .8 Million is NOT a lot of money .  They can spend that like you and I spend $50 or $100.    The AVERAGE income of the top 1% in the USA that everyone talks about is almost $1 Million a year.  If that is the average... lots make WAY more than that. 

 

And if that art is an INVESTMENT buy....... it is not like us spending that $50 or $100 on a dinner out or a new shirt.  It is like us putting that money into a high yield savings account or CD with a very good interest rate.  And in addition to that potential tangible ROI...........  I also get the bragging rights of owning a xxxxxxxxxxxx, and I get to look at the piece on my wall or table.

 

best,

 

................john


John Baymore
Adjunct Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

Former Guest Professor, Wuxi Institute of Arts and Science, Yixing, China

Former President and Past President; Potters Council
 

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

http://www.nhia.edu/...ty/john-baymore


#16 JBaymore

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 10:51 PM

 

 Why does this happen? I am not sure even art historians and scholars know.

 

 

It happens because life is actually quite random.  Some folks are fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time.  Others of equal or better skill aren't. 

 

For every "Eric Clapton"....... there are probably 20 at least as good or better blues musicians sitting on porches in the south pickin' and singin' away that are total "unknowns"..... and who will remain that way to all but their friends and family.

 

Life is unfair.

 

Also......... read Malcolm Gladwell's "The Outliers". for a good take on how some folks "float to the top".

 

best,

 

..............john


John Baymore
Adjunct Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

Former Guest Professor, Wuxi Institute of Arts and Science, Yixing, China

Former President and Past President; Potters Council
 

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

http://www.nhia.edu/...ty/john-baymore


#17 SydneyGee

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 11:56 AM

 

 

 Why does this happen? I am not sure even art historians and scholars know.

 

 

It happens because life is actually quite random.  Some folks are fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time.  Others of equal or better skill aren't. 

 

For every "Eric Clapton"....... there are probably 20 at least as good or better blues musicians sitting on porches in the south pickin' and singin' away that are total "unknowns"..... and who will remain that way to all but their friends and family.

 

Life is unfair.

 

Also......... read Malcolm Gladwell's "The Outliers". for a good take on how some folks "float to the top".

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

 

That is a good theory. I feel that people tend to like things more because they are told it is rare/famous/spectacular. For example - I do not like diamonds. I did not want a diamond wedding ring, I dislike the history behind them and the shady market that supplies them. Yet I have been told my opinion is wrong because "diamonds are a girls best friend".

 

There was a nail polish experiment with a nearly identical color bottle of $200 nail polish, and a $2 no-name polish. The labels were switched, and they were applied to various people on the street and asked which they liked better. Almost everyone pointed to the "$200" polish, and justified their opinion even after being told the labels had been switched. Their opinion was swayed because they knew their projected worth and were biased.

 

In nonfunctional art, people are not spending $2mil on a painting because they like it, but because others will value it based on it's price. Whether to be a conversation piece or personal statement of wealth, "terrible" paintings will continue to rule the market over real talent so long as humans worship monetary status and pride :rolleyes:

But that is another issue ;)


 

 

 

Might as well admit it, i'm addicted to clay....


#18 Joseph F

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 08:27 PM

I actually like that art more than most. It's a nice conversation starter more than most of the random art on peoples wall. If I walked into someones house and saw that I would inquire about it. But I am also like John B. Something is worth what its worth to the person wanting to buy it. 



#19 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:24 PM

The value of art is in the eye of the purchaser...
Your comment is reminiscent of an email I had gotten regarding a world famous violinist playing a world famous tune on a world famous $2M Stradivarius on a subway platform in NYC and the majority of people in the station ignored him to the horror of some pointy head critics who thought their (the passers-by) reaction was blasphemous when just a few folks put a few dollars in his collection plate.


I Always disliked social experiments like that. Many don't consider that the passerby may be late for work, or on the way to see somebody in the hospital etc.

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#20 JohnnyK

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 10:56 AM

 

The value of art is in the eye of the purchaser...
Your comment is reminiscent of an email I had gotten regarding a world famous violinist playing a world famous tune on a world famous $2M Stradivarius on a subway platform in NYC and the majority of people in the station ignored him to the horror of some pointy head critics who thought their (the passers-by) reaction was blasphemous when just a few folks put a few dollars in his collection plate.


I Always disliked social experiments like that. Many don't consider that the passerby may be late for work, or on the way to see somebody in the hospital etc.

 

Actually, Rebekah, it could simply be that a lot of people just don't like violin music in the subway....regardless of who, what , when or why.






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