Pulling Walls

[dhPotter]

Very good article for throwing tall in the PMI Nov/Dec 2016 edition, page 10. This person uses the thirds method. Pulls the top 1/3 then middle 1/3 then bottom 1/3.

 

Have not tried this technique, but will.

[glazenerd]

DH: spent the last two days pulling cylinders, and losing them once I cross the 14" range: and thats okay too. I can hit the 10-12" range (barely) and have made a few forms out of them. I know what I am doing wrong, and it will take some time to get it corrected because it is part of the learning curve. I am trying to gauge the pressure between my fingers on the inner and outer walls. Sometimes I lighten the pressure, and other times pinch harder: which obviously doing that in the same pull does not work very well... but part of learning. So I will keep collapsing forms over the next week, but my trusty Nerd Clay Recycler is nearby, so that is okay too.

 

QUESTION: I see people using sponges to pull walls..why?  Does it require less water, less drag?

 

Nerd

[Mark C.]

I often use a sponge along with fingers.

[glazenerd]

After three weeks, as far as I have gotten. (2 hours a day)

 

 

Nerd

[Magnolia Mud Research]

Well done!

 

LT

[Babs]

Now cut them as Old Lady says and note the thickness uniformity or not!

[preeta]

congratulations nerd. you are doing really well in so short a time. kudos to you. 

 

i can barely throw a 12 inch cylinder and keep the walls at 90 degrees.

 

if you can throw 90 degrees cylinders and perfectly graduating U bottom bowls and a shallow u shaped bowl otherwise known as a plate/platter you have arrived. 

 

btw i go over this board with a fine tooth comb. even hard threads that i struggle to understand (means further reading to clarify). so i do know you make your own clay amongst other things.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I don't get the sponge throwing thing either. I don't like loosing the feeling under my fingertips.

[Mark C.]

The sponge tracks next to fingertips it can suck up water or lubricate wall depending own whats needed. It helps if the sponge is and older beater one for me to use.

I have tried to stay away from teaching throwing on this site as its one thing I think helps when you can have immediate feedback from say a teacher.

I'll let other chine in on throwing.One last note on the sponge my1 st 30 years I did not use on as much as now. Now it helps in many areas. Throwing is learned skill from much practice and what works for me may not work for you and vice versa.

[Rex Johnson]

...yes! I made a few of these just for that reason, as blank canvases for my next saggar....

...here ya go kids,

well you get the idea...

 

[SydneyGee]

 

...yes! I made a few of these just for that reason, as blank canvases for my next saggar....

...here ya go kids,

well you get the idea...

 

 

 

 

*Drools*

 

How tall are those and how much clay did you use?

[glazenerd]

Pulled a total of six cylinders today: got as high as 14". Collapsed four of them, and cut two of them open. Got some serious learning to do, top half was roughly a 1/4" thick walls, and the bottom half nearly a 1/2". Running out of time to play though, another week or so have two houses to start, and a room addition. Looks like throwing will become a rarity until sometime late next spring. Such is life. Keeping many of my starter pieces, have some glazes I want to test.

 

Rex: it will be awhile before I learn enough to get that tall- but I will get there.  TY Preeta.

 

Nerd

[Mark C.]

Since throwing is much like breathing for me-that is I do not think about it. Today I was throwing dinner plates salad plates large chip and dips and 50 spoon rests .

I did use the sponge against the clay under my finger when spreading out what I can flat stuff which is all these forms I mentioned . In flat form throwing I want to open and spread them fast and a wet sponge works better than my finger. So in this case its the sponge under one finger which is my middle  finger. It may be a different finger for you.

[Rex Johnson]

 

 

...yes! I made a few of these just for that reason, as blank canvases for my next saggar....

...here ya go kids,

well you get the idea...

 

 

 

 

*Drools*

 

How tall are those and how much clay did you use?

 

 

This one is about 14-15", but thin-ish walls and a heavy-ish bottom.

I'm challenged, I admit it. It takes me a good 20 minutes to pull maybe 10-12 pounds of clay which is my limit.

Younger and stronger potters would pull that amount more like 18".

[preeta]

nerd the time away might be a good thing. its really strange but whenever i return back to school after a month or two weeks of not doing pottery i find i improve and throw much better upon return. 

 

right now i have potter's block. i've been throwing a lot lately as we apprach the end of semester. the deadline of greenware looms ahead. i have been struggling to center the last few times. my production level has gone down quite a bit. i struggle to center not just clay but even for trimming. 

[SydneyGee]

nerd the time away might be a good thing. its really strange but whenever i return back to school after a month or two weeks of not doing pottery i find i improve and throw much better upon return. 

 

right now i have potter's block. i've been throwing a lot lately as we apprach the end of semester. the deadline of greenware looms ahead. i have been struggling to center the last few times. my production level has gone down quite a bit. i struggle to center not just clay but even for trimming. 

 

Same boat! I am just unenthused... I have yet to make a teapot I like for our final project and I am having a hard time with this stiff clay we have left (I got a tip from one of the advanced students to buy 10-15 bags of your favorite clay at the beginning of the year before they run out).

 

I just cannot pull even walls with this clay, never really had a good time with it. Too groggy and sharp, plus very dry and stiff. I have been watching videos, but when I use just my bare hands to pull walls it catches too quickly on the clay if it gets even slightly dry.

[oldlady]

to soften that clay quickly, try wedging on a wet terrycloth towel.  it won't work like it normally will but you can get some moisture into it if you flatten a largish chunk down to an inch thick, fold the wet towel over it and smack it with a heavy wooden rolling pin or something similar in weight.  just bash it a bunch and move it to a wet spot when the towel gets dryish and bash it again.  at some point it will work.  

 

(my wooden tool started as a chunk of 4x4 and i cut away some to make a handle.  it is called a whammerdammer)

[Pres]

 

 

 

...yes! I made a few of these just for that reason, as blank canvases for my next saggar....

...here ya go kids,

well you get the idea...

 

 

 

 

*Drools*

 

How tall are those and how much clay did you use?

 

 

This one is about 14-15", but thin-ish walls and a heavy-ish bottom.

I'm challenged, I admit it. It takes me a good 20 minutes to pull maybe 10-12 pounds of clay which is my limit.

Younger and stronger potters would pull that amount more like 18".

 

I have to say, that younger/stronger may have it over us in the amount of time it takes to center, or to pull a wall. However, when it gets down to the nitty gritty of the whole thing, technique will win over strength and youth any day of the week. I could out wedge all of the students I had in school, even after they learned how to wedge, could do the same in when it came to throwing. At my present age, I believe that I can still pull as well as I did when much younger, even though it might take me 15-30 minutes longer on a large form. I'm talking about a cylinder the length of my arm. I believe that I am not in a small group either as many of the folks that post on here can throw large forms that have great volume even though they may be only 14" tall. A 14" tall round form takes a dang big cylinder.

 

 

best,

Pres

[Babs]

Sydney gee listen to old lady.

Time spent softening that clay to what you can work with will not be wasted.

Nor the time taken to check the walls of cylinder are uniformly moist when throwing. May try using a sponge as Mark describes, slip instead of water works for me.

[SydneyGee]

Sydney gee listen to old lady.

Time spent softening that clay to what you can work with will not be wasted.

Nor the time taken to check the walls of cylinder are uniformly moist when throwing. May try using a sponge as Mark describes, slip instead of water works for me.

 

I agree. And I have to say, although young, I am by no means stronger than any one of you here! In fact, I may be weaker thanks to my joint problems. It takes me probably just as long to pull a tall cylinder, with 10" or around 5lbs still being my max.

 

I was using b-mix with little problems until we ran out. I use a sponge to assist me in all my forms. B-mix is very soft, and it gave me no difficulties in pulling tall cylinders. The clay I have to use now is very stiff and groggy, and the sponge catches on the drying clay, so I will do as everyone suggests and wedge it into some moist cloth. Thank you!

[Magnolia Mud Research]

Dealing with 'stiff' clay
This works for me :

Cut out the amount of clay you will use in one class session and shape them into balls.  Spray with a misting sprayer, then place in a thin plastic trash bag that does not leak.  Put the bag of clay balls into a bucket of water that covers the clay.  This gets all the air out of the bag and keeps the plastic tight against the clay.  Leave overnight or two overnights .... Take them out and wedge just before throwing.  Slam stack wedging will work fine for this and will not tire your wrists.  The clay will become softer and easier to handle on the wheel.   You can rehydrate the entire bag block this way, but it may take a several days or a week depending on how thick the plastic bag is and how 'dry' the clay has become. 

 

One of the keys here is that the ball is dampened all over and the moisture is held in place by having the plastic held tight against the clay.  The moisture  will migrate inwards uniformly from all surfaces over night.  For small balls, 2 lbs bowl balls, I dip the ball in a bucket of water, shake it and wrap tightly in a thin plastic sheet.  The ball will be just right when I come back to the class room two days later (~48 hours).

 

If you don't wrap it tight, the water drains to the bottom which will be mushy and the top still stiff.

 

LT

[MatthewV]

The school doesn't have a pug mill you can run the older stiffer clay through? Yup, I pug fresh bags of clay when it makes my life easier.

 

Also it feels good to be one of those younger, stronger and still experienced kids.

[preeta]

sydney the day i worked out how soft i like my clay my throwing improved dramatically. i discovered i like throwing very soft clay, almost on the edge of too soft. in fact it WAS too sticky, but wedging on plaster took out just enough water to not make it sticky. at first not knowing any better i was attempting to throw with a bag of hard clay that even wedged hard. i learnt my lesson. it just isnt worth it to use hard clay for me. waste of time and frustrating.

 

also if your clay is too groggy do you have access to some ball clay? i use recycled clay a lot at school. when i feel it is short i add some ball clay and that really helps. 

 

were you throwing with bmix or bmix with grog. that's the clay i started on. bmix with grog. at the beginning of this semester i tried without grog and OMG. i couldnt do anything. everything kept collapsing and melting away. since then i've worked with a few other clays. maybe next semester i'll give bmix without grog another try. my first 12 inches i threw with bmix with grog. i am amazed at the beating that clay would take. how stretched out multiple times it could get and yet back to the narrow form i wanted its neck to be. 

[SydneyGee]

This is not directly related, but I had an epiphany while throwing last week.

 

It is much easier to throw as thin as possible, bringing the clay as high up as you can, and trimming while it is still wet on the wheel, than it is to go back and trim when leather hard.

[oldlady]

glad you learned that, sydney.  when you are ready for the next step, try making the ball of clay into a doorknob shape after centering the clay.  that way, what you pull up goes into the height and shape of the bowl and the foot is almost there when you finish pulling.  very little trimming except what you do with a metal rib right then on the walls.