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porcelainbyAntoinette

Chawan, Yonomi, Tea Bowl, Tea Cup, Mug.......

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I have asked this question elsewhere too............If you enter into a competition and  they have a specific theme..."chawan", " yonomi" , "tea bowl", "tea cup", "mug" ; How do you define it? How do you decide what to enter? 

 

Connie Christensen is our newest online teacher and the question came up when she made accessories to her teapot. Is this just a cultural thing, or is there any significant definitions? 

What say you? 

 

Antoinette Badenhorst

www.porcelainbyAntoinette.com 

www.Teachinart.com

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It is funny you ask this, my professor just assigned the advanced students to make a functional tea set. I was wondering the exact same thing! She explained that we are to imitate a traditional form, or a widely accepted form as our inspiration. The set must match to a degree, and saucers are optional. I wonder if that stifles creativity of heightens it?

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sydney. if you are in a student situation, learn what is being taught.  you have a lifetime for whatever creativity is unleashed once you have basic skills.  

 

even Shakespeare needed to learn the alphabet.

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Source: http://teapages.net/2008/07/teaware-yunomi-and-chawan.html

 

YUNOMI
Yunomi, meaning “cups for hot water,†are cups with no handles used for daily tea drinking. The shape is usually quite cylindrical, taller than they are wide – tsutsugata. Sencha is frequently drunk from these cups. Yunomi are frequently made from ceramic, while stoneware yunomi are favored by some who appreciate the way the pieces change as they absorb color and flavor over time. Yunomi are frequently used on chataku (coasters) as described in a previous post.

CHAWAN
A chawan is a ceramic bowl that is used for drinking tea at Japanese tea ceremonies. (It is also used in Japan to refer to bowls for rice. Therefore, the bowls used for chado may be called “matcha chawan.“) As opposed to yunomi, chawan are usually wider than they are tall. According to Japanese Architecture and Art Net Users System, the cups are, on average, 8 cm high and 15 cm in diameter. Interestingly, shorter bowls are used in summer and taller, narrower bowls in winter.

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It is funny you ask this, my professor just assigned the advanced students to make a functional tea set. I was wondering the exact same thing! She explained that we are to imitate a traditional form, or a widely accepted form as our inspiration. The set must match to a degree, and saucers are optional. I wonder if that stifles creativity of heightens it?

I think those are pretty loose and fluid parameters with lots of room for personal expression.

 

I personally feel that having some kind of limits and/or requirements heightens my creativity. This is one of the reasons I enjoy making functional work. So for example if I want to make something pierced I must either create a functional form that needs to be pierced (berry bowl, lantern, orchid pot) OR find a way to pierce a form that must also hold liquid. This will extend my boundaries when I make either a double walled pot, or something like 'rice porcelain'.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

I have not taken a class so I have self-assigned projects to myself with parameters to force me out of my comfort zone.

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Thank you for your responds everyone. I see it has been discussed before.  We live in an era in which chefs and their food get great attention. There are new ideas for serving food and some very creative I have to say. I think by using different objects for different purposes, expand the opportunity for potters ( and other artists) to sell their products. I also think we must explore how old ideas may get new purpose. I have a yonomi cup ( as I would define it - taller than wide) with kosher salt in next to my stove top. I am also using tea bowls to serve snacks in. Of cause, some may call it a cereal bowl, which I agree with. Now...........when does a plate become a bowl?

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Thank you for your responds everyone. I see it has been discussed before.  We live in an era in which chefs and their food get great attention. There are new ideas for serving food and some very creative I have to say. I think by using different objects for different purposes, expand the opportunity for potters ( and other artists) to sell their products. I also think we must explore how old ideas may get new purpose. I have a yonomi cup ( as I would define it - taller than wide) with kosher salt in next to my stove top. I am also using tea bowls to serve snacks in. Of cause, some may call it a cereal bowl, which I agree with. Now...........when does a plate become a bowl?

 

A plate becomes a bowl when it can comfortably hold a decent amount of soup. ;):D

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when the mind makes the switch. As cliche as it is, I know a bowl when I see one.

 

Yeah ditto on just roll with the parameters whatever they are. That's the way the real world is too. There's always something about why your making a pot that is going to establish some parameters and if you ever do this professionally you will always have either self-imposed or requested boundaries. 

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 Now...........when does a plate become a bowl?

Platter? 

 

this is an interesting question A. i've asked the reverse myself. When does a bowl become a plate? lately i've been watching how i eat and wondering what the most convenient instruments to eat food out of, once i learnt how to center and throw even walls (most of the time). i dont really 'sit down' and eat. i dont often sit at a table. i've discovered i now dislike the plate. its become formal ware for me. to be used at a table, or anytime i have to use a knife. 

 

in my contemplation i found a platter or pie plate becomes my favourite bowl. i've found i like the gradual curve, not a sharp line that a cylinder has between floor and wall. so wide base and short walls. for meals. but the opposite for soups and cereal or a one course meal. i like my food separate (dont care about touching or not) and i like to see all the different foods i have. 

 

in other words since i am holding the vessel in my hand i prefer a curve to sit in the palm of my hand than a flat thing. which is why even the pie plate or small platter does not work for me, but i'd rather use that than a plate. a gradual curved floor with a shallow wall.

 

does that mean that the plate has become a bowl for me? or has the bowl become a plate? 

 

i've lately been questioning the tea pot too. is the traditional design still the best design for today where one uses tea bags or herbal teas which can soak for a long time without tannic acid becoming an issue. or has the traditional tea pot been the wrong design for tea that wont soak long? or was it correct since tea was a communal affair and after a 4 minute steep all the 4 or 5 cups of tea were poured out. so then for me is a jug a better tea pot with a tea cozy so i can make the perfect quart of tea and drink for a while. with a jug i have access to every part to clean but i can only guess at the teapot's spout. cleanliness becomes an issue since i add milk to my tea.  then the design of the cup i'd like to drink out of completely changes. 

 

much to think about :)

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 Now...........when does a plate become a bowl?

 

in my contemplation i found a platter or pie plate becomes my favourite bowl. i've found i like the gradual curve, not a sharp line that a cylinder has between floor and wall. so wide base and short walls. for meals. but the opposite for soups and cereal or a one course meal. i like my food separate (dont care about touching or not) and i like to see all the different foods i have. 

 

 

I've been thinking about this too. I'm part way through a dinnerware order and the customers didn't want the traditional rimmed plates, more of what you are describing, plus a bowl they can hold comfortably in their hands. These are just bisque but got the nod for the shape from the people ordering them.

post-747-0-38418400-1477585313_thumb.jpg

post-747-0-38418400-1477585313_thumb.jpg

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Preeta: I had a room-mate who only ate in bowls. Everything from her scrambled eggs, to pastas, just about anything can be eaten in a bowl. And not a low wide bowl, like cereal bowls. Maybe that was because we never did the dishes and only had cereal bowls left though.... :rolleyes:

 

Min: Those look great. If I had it my way we would not have plates in the traditional sense. You can serve on a platter, but have your portions in bowls like these. Self contained foods such as sandwiches and pizza can be eaten on personal cheese boards or platters.

il_340x270.972243932_mje6.jpg

 

e7de7b73bfe52ad0b834d805a1fd7fdf.jpg

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oooh ayjay you are making me HUNGRY. that looks delicious (as well as revolting as i cant eat that much meat in one sitting :))

 

min i'd like to see the profile of your plates. they look beautiful.

 

Sydney actually its been difficult to find the right bowl-plate shape for my daughter and me. i ended up having to create one myself. there were ones that were close but not right. it would kinda be a combination between your picture and this one with no pronounced foot. if you kinda stretched out the bottom picture and shortened the wall that's the kind of plate bowl i prefer. i usually eat pizza with a salad or a sandwich with salad or chips. i'd still prefer my bowl-plate. 

 bowl.jpg

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min i'd like to see the profile of your plates.

 

 

Sure, not much to look at though. Customers wanted them as deep as possible but still able to fit in the plate sections of the dishwasher. They wanted them footed but we had to compromise and just make a shallow foot and no glaze inside the footring or else they would be too shallow on the inside. (I usually glaze inside plate footrings) Bowls have a deep enough foot to glaze inside the footring (just barely). 

 

(propped against a jar so I could get a profile picture)

 

(sorry Antoinette, not trying to hijack your post)

post-747-0-78301400-1477615828_thumb.jpg

post-747-0-78301400-1477615828_thumb.jpg

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thanks so much min. with the first photograph i could not tell how deep your plate is. but your new photo really surprises me. i did not expect so deep. and a good reminder that it should fit the dishwasher. 

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Guest JBaymore

"i've lately been questioning the tea pot too. is the traditional design still the best design for today................"

 

There are and have been many designs for teapots...... not just one.  Serious tea drinkers tend to select the pot to go with the tea type.  Some people use tea bags... some use loose tea.  Some drink Lipton... some drink $100 an ounce olong.

 

There are lots of options for teapots.  Learn about tea........ and you can learn about making teapots.

 

If you are trying to make XXXXXXX to use for XXXXXXXX, you either need to know a decent amount about XXXXXXXXX or have a good advisor that does know about XXXXXXXX that can help you understand what the important factors are about the way the piece gets used for XXXXXXXX.

 

best,

 

................john

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john absolutely right!!!

 

i am a considered a tea snob - the india kind here. 

 

the thing is there is a long tradition of tea of different kinds.

 

but i feel tea bags - especially herbal (which i dont even really consider tea) needs to have its own tradition. not use a traditional tea pot that applies to another kind of tea. so i am wondering does tea bags need a teapot or pitcher spout, or like the chocolate pitcher does not need any spout at all. 

 

i am thinking more of the holes and the spout. but perhaps its a moot point. just use a 12 oz mug to steep so one doesnt even need the teapot. 

 

its because my own way of drinking tea has changed since crossing the seas. for me there is a difference between drinking tea (traditional loose leaf) and then there is drinking hot herbal water and then there is black tea bags. and so for me (since i do drink copious cups of black tea in tea bags and hate mixing milk and sugar each time) i need to find a tea pot design that meets my needs (like an 'open' 'pitcher' spout which i can easily reach and wash out properly milky tea as i wouldnt care about tea stain in a tea pot), where a tea cozy will keep it hot so i dont have to use the microwave and ruin the taste. i'd like that better than a thermos.   

 

(says a person who cringes at tea balls and tea ball spoons and still uses a tea strainer)

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Great great info; as always John. I agree with the teapot peetra. There is a South African tea, Rooibos which is one of the examples that I want to mention. Rooibos is an herbal tea, but different in the sense that gets better when steeped over a period of 3 days. I use it in any form I get it in the USA, but the only teapot that work for me is a metal one that sits on the stovetop. Every day I will drink some, top it up with water and more tea and at the end of 3 days it is a rich deep red tea. Most Americans that do drink it, drink it incorrectly.  Then there are the different Asian tea ceremonies that each have it's own needs. 

However, when we as potters talk about a "teapot" , there are specific, known elements. Those elements must function correctly if it is meant for utilitarian uses. It does not matter how it is designed, as long as it works and do not look like one thing, but function incorrectly. 

I think that is true for most nations.   

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Antoinette eloquently made the case for the statement:

"It does not matter how it is designed, as long as it works and do not look like one thing, but function incorrectly".

 

After viewing and reading carefully John B's 15 NECEA presentation, especially the segment regarding a 'hubcap,'

I would add a summary corollary: 

 

A tea pot is any pot used to make tea.

 

LT

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another corollary.

 

i wanted to have a giant cup of tea this morning. my mouth watered at the thought of that tea. so i drank my tea out of a bowl.

 

and my roommate pointed out "this is what Obama was talking about today. the east and the west has to work together. (i am from india)." she thought it was the most impractical thing to do. and i thought the opposite. it was perfect for me to just sit with the tea and give it my full attention. rather the bowl forced me to sit down. and i wanted to sit down and savour the tea. 

 

OMG Antoinette. I did not know that about Rooibus. If i remember the directions on the box they said nothing. THANK YOU for bringing that up. 

 

my pet peeve. the only people who i have met who know anything about tea or coffee are connoisseurs. the others just want a cup and they are happy with the brew. if you know what the actual taste is i cant see how you can go back to just a cup. the only way i know how to make a good darjeeling (with the right leaves) is to make it myself. in my city none of the tea or coffee houses have ever brewed any form of camellia sinensis correctly. there are lots of knowledgeable people about the tea but not the brew. 

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Just one comment, as I am a tea/coffee connoisseur from being a intensely trained barista as well as hobbyist tea drinker/food pairer. (:

 

"Most Americans that do drink it, drink it incorrectly. "

 

I had a close friend who was Indian, and from South Africa. Every time she went back, she would bring me Rooibos tea and brew me a cup the western style. When I asked her how it was prepared back there, she said "it is prepared the way the preparer enjoys it the most." So, although it hurts, I cannot condemn someone who enjoys lipton because they are not a foodie and do not understand that the powdered scrap "leaves" is literally trash :rolleyes: 

 

Now, serving a cup of coffee from your kuerig with warm milk and calling it a latte is something else.... :angry:

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