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Narrowed It Down To A Couple Wheels?


sprig2

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Background info

I am a newbie to throwing pottery. Very new, as in I haven't ever thrown new. I am not new to kilns, firing, casting, a little clay work,  glazing, painting etc.  I live very rural so I am planning to use Simon Leach videos to learn by. Wish me luck. :o)

 

So I have narrowed down my wheel brand to a Brent wheel. What I am not sure of is which one. I plan on functional ware as my focus. I don't plan on doing super large pieces. 

 

I am not sure about the wheel size I should get? 12" or 14" The Brent IE , the Brent ie-x or Should I just go all in and get the Brent C or Cxc. 

 

The Brent C and CXC seem a bit overkill?  I think for functional ware? Am I right in my thinking? I don't think I need a wheel with a 75-100 lb clay ability?

 

So that would leave me with the ie and ie-x .. the ie is a 12" 20 lb clay  the ie-x I believe was a 14" 25 lb clay.  

 

SInce I am not sure what features a wheel potter uses and wants in a wheel its been difficult to decide? Somethings like a foot pedal seem obvious as a good feature, Do you want a larger wheel? or is the 12" wheel sufficient? Since I havent thrown before I simply do not have a point of reference.  I want to buy a wheel that will have the features one would want but I don't want to buy more wheel than I would need? 

 

I would like to get a wheel that I won't be saying in a year I should of........ 

 

I would appreciate anyones input on which Brent wheel they feel would fit my situation. 

 

Thank You

Sandy

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Get a 14'' wheel head if you ever plan on being serious about it imo. Almost all the bats are designed for 14'' wheel head with 10'' pins. Also if your ever going to make a standard dinner plate, around 11-12 inches, then your going to need a 14'' bat to make it after shrinkage you have to throw them 13-14''. 

 

People on these forums are Brent and TS/Skutt fans. I own a TS/Skutt wheel and its fantastic. I use it every day. I have thrown on a brent and a shimpo. I prefer the brent over it, but I like my TS because of my giant splash pan that I clean out like once every 3 weeks.  

 

If brent had a giant splash pan model, then I wouldn't care which I owned. 

 

I have never dealt with brent support, but my bearing on my wheel messed up and I called TS they sent me a new one in a few days and I sent back the bad one. Great customer service.

 

Either way, welcome to the community and let us know what you decide and stick around and ask more questions.

 

Another good youtuber to watch is Hsinchuen Lin (https://www.youtube.com/user/hsinchuen). I personally took 4 classes and then dropped out and learned to throw by mimicking what he was doing until I could go from there. I think Simon does great stuff but he rambles a bit too much for me, but he is a fantastic instructor, not knocking him or anything just not my style. 

 

Good luck!

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I also noticed that Brent is now rating their wheels by how much clay they can 'continuously handle', which is very different than centering capacity. Centering capacity is more important, because that's when you need power and torque. It's also really important when you're working far out from the center of the wheel. For instance, I made a few 8 pound platters today, which require flatting out a disc to 15 inches. When putting a lot of pressure that far out from the center of the head, you need torque in order for it to run smoothly without bogging down. Small motors just can't handle it.

 

That said, motor size isn't necessarily the best indicator of torque. The TS/Skutt 1/3hp models have more torque than the Brent CXC. The small motors on Soldner wheels have tons of power, too.

 

Get a 14" wheel head. Yes, you can put a 14" bat on a 12" wheel head, but it will be more stable on the bigger head.

 

I, too, am a TS/Skutt fan. I own 11 of them. The Classic will handle anything you want to throw. I regularly make 50 pound planters on mine. And like Joseph said, the big splash pan is a dream. Plus it's got more torque than the Brent CXC for a lot less money, and I think the controllers are a lot smoother.

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I am a Shimpo fan. Have two of them - an ancient RK1 (1973 imported direct from Japan still with original instructions in Japanese), and a new VL Whisper. Learned on and have used Brent's over time and they are fine, but still prefer the Shimpos. Never used a TS but saw them at NCECA in March and they certainly look the goods, but no personal experience with them.

 

Neil is right that once you surpass a certain amount of clay on the wheel head, what distinguishes a wheel (and where many quickly fall away) is the torque available when applying pressure near the outside edge of the wheel head. Centering a large amount of clay is one instance where this matters. Does the wheel head just bog down and stop? Not enough torque. Also, if you look at electrical use, the amperage drawn spikes way up at that moment (double or triple the normal rated draw) Electrical motors do not like to be stopped in this fashion. A few of them doing this at the same time on the same circuit can definitely trigger the breakers, I have seen it happen. But I digress.

 

The other - probably more important - instance where this torque matters is when you are throwing a large object like a giant bowl or urn and the circumference of the bowl is likely far greater than the circumference of the wheel head. At this point the wheel head itself is actually not turning very fast, but at the outer edge of your big pot the clay is actually travelling much faster through your hands where you are throwing. In this instance what you need is a great deal of very STEADY power to keep the big mass of clay moving, but at dead slow speed and smoothly without creating "judder" at the soft edge of your pot where you are working.

 

Many (particularly older) belt-driven wheels fail miserably at this task, either not offering any kind of low speed option (they just go from medium slow to a dead stop in an instant no matter how slowly you ease off the pedal), or shake and shudder and bump along roughly at any kind of slow speed. Watching your big piece judder is not only stressful, it makes it Much more challenging to work the clay further. Or at least that has been my experience.

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I don't like Brents for a few reasons, one of which is the splash pan is entirely too small IMO. We have one Brent C. I like it so much it's buried here in the storage trailer under a bunch of other stuff.

 

For the money, Axner is hard to beat and can be repaired with inexpensive parts from a good hardware store, however; I'm not crazy about the splash pan. I think we have one for another wheel on it right now. I especially dig the fact the wheel head bearings are greasable. I like Shimpos too but I know that wasn't the question. :lol:

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I will take the different tack here as I do use a CXC. I have used this wheel for over 20 years now. I throw up to 25# on it and never have a problem, and never replaced a belt. I have the two piece splash pan, and clean it our weekly. It seals up well, and will hold a lot of slop. The griffin grip will set on the wheel without interfering. I also have a large trim box that I built that sets at the bottom of the wheel when not in use when I trim larger platters and bowls. This keeps trimming mess to a minimum. Which ever wheel you buy, all of the above recommendations are excellent. I really would suggest that you have a chance to try these wheels out at a ceramics store or some other place. Wheel fit is more than just the head and motor. . .height, fit where you sit, distance to the wheel head, and other things will influence your decision.  Other wheel I would recommend? Look at Bailey's Ceramic for large splash pans, and good torque at good price.

 

 

 

best,

Pres

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Pres is spot on abut that. My wife is short (5'2") and some wheels just don't fit her due to deck width and wheel head placement therein. So far I think Pacifica has the narrowest deck and IMO, the best wheel head placement (although I can't see the sides of the pot that well with me directly over it). I know it looks a lot like a Brent but I can feel a definite difference between the two.

 

If you can, see if you can sit at a few wheels first (even if just on craigslist ads) but be mindful of what you are sitting on as well, as that will make a huge difference in how a particular wheel feels to you as far as fit when comparing. For me it took some trial and error to figure out what works best for a stool, which in my case is an old wooden chair we've had forever.

 

Picking out a first wheel that's "right" for you is as difficult as a beginner would-be guitarist picking out a guitar. It's hard to figure out what works for you when you don't know how to make the thing work. Just break it down into simple things.

 

Are your legs spread too far or not enough?

 

Do you have to reach out further or closer than you'd like to?

 

Is the wheel head or deck  too high or too low (try different seating arrangement first to see)

 

Are you hunched over too far or not enough?

 

Could you stay in that position for a while?

 

Where would your water bucket be and how easy would it be to reach it?

 

See what you can do to fix the things that bug you about sitting at a particular wheel before writing it off. Selecting a wheel  is (hopefully) a long term commitment. Making the wrong choice will determine whether it will be long term or not. You wouldn't run out and marry someone from the first craigslist personal ad that was in your area/range, so don't do it with a wheel either. Take your time and see what's out there. I know they look all the same but they aren't; even the one's that look almost identical.

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I agree with you guys on fit and comfort being important. I am not super tall at 5' 6" but I have long legs for my height.  I am going to take a day trip to a supply house next week if all goes as planned. They have some wheels there I can sit at! Three brands from what their web site says. I have a list now of things to consider while looking. Its a good starting point!

Joseph F I checked out the Hsinchuen Lin videos, thank you, now I have two people to learn from.

 Thanks guys

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I have Brent (C and CXC) and Shimp VL Whispers side by side. I learned on a Brent.

Today I only use the Shimpo wheels and when I buy more wheels they will all be Shimpo.
The splash pan on both... need a redesign.

 

Here is what they don't mention about new Brent wheels -- they ease to a stop. Going from full speed to stop... takes a few seconds. This is very very annoying when trimming!

They are also kinda noisy.

 

--

I wouldn't care if my wheels had 12" heads. Even on larger platters I am keeping the bases around 12". The smaller head would be easier to clean!

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I've used Brent, Shimpo, and a few kick wheels. I own a Brent C. I wear headphones when I throw, so I don't really notice the noise. It's not really that loud, but if you like working in silence, it's definitely a thing to consider. I've never found a splash pan that ever contained all the trimmings, even on the big Leach kick wheels, so I find they're all equally annoying. I just keep my reclaim bucket next to the wheel while trimming, and scoop things out as often as I need, and mop after.

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Which every you choose, my 2cents would be to make sure its reversible  i.e. can spin clockwise and counter clockwise

 

 

To add to that, if you find a deal on one that isn't, as long as it's a DC permanent magnet motor; you should be able to add a DPDT switch to it to spin it back'ards. I can't remember if that applies to wound stator motors but I'm unaware of anyone using those in wheels; everything I've encountered so far was PM. Given the way the Whisper acts it may be a wound stator motor but it's already reversible.

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i am too old to know if that is a good or a bad thing, neil. :)  :(

 

It means that you've found my trigger for setting me off on a rant or angering me.

 

not sure I get it?

 

If you search for giffin grip, you will come across a number of threads weighing the pros/cons/appropriateness of using the gg. What we have found is that the mere mention of the gg can trigger strong reactions and pontifications by adherents and detractors. For some, it is akin to fingernails screeching across the blackboard in school. For others, a life-saving device they could not live/pot without. We make a lot of jokes at the expense of the gg. (Like Lord Voldermort, some even question whether the name should be mentioned aloud.)

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  • 2 months later...

I would like to reiterate what Curt said. Even though you might not throw large pieces, keep in mind the torque while centering. I (as a newbie) bought a Shimpo RK 55 that has a centering capacity of 25 lbs thinking it would be a long long time before I throw pieces larger than that. But it slows down when I try to center even 2 lbs. The reason is torque and the 1/8 HP motor. Make sure whatever you buy has a motor of atleast 1/4 HP if not 1/2 or 1. 

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