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Liability Of Making Lamps?


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A few weeks ago i made bunch of lamps for my show room.  There have been a lot of interest in them and i know i can not sell them once they are wired (UL issues).

 

I was thinking about making up another batch of them for sale, but don't know how to market them.  I did contact my lawyer and he says i can put in the metal threaded bar as long as i glue in the wire protector on the bottom.  Were not allowed to suggest what kit to buy to finish them.

 

Dose anyone have any ideas?

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maybe you could have a lamp store do the wiring so it is ul approved. 

I heard a horror story of a  decorating business that somehow put a lamp on the floor that was not ul approved. It malfunctioned and burned down a 2M house and the business when bankrupt.

 

I know someone who just throws the lamp bases and sells them to a lamp store.   rakuku

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I got an email back form my lawyer about an hour ago...

He says they sell a prewired screw on lamp base that the wire comes out of the side of the socket.  He says i would be fine using them.

He says to find a shop that rebuilds lights to do them, but then i need to tract all the paper work showing when it was done.

 

 

He looks at it the same way as he dose candle holders.  Because we make them he says were not allowed to burn any candles when open.  We also have to call them luminary and if we chose to put a light in them they can not look like candles.

 

 

Mug liability... http://www.weinsteinandwisser.com/Product-Liability-Claim-202-500-Settlement.shtml

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Even if the lamp shop wires them up they won't be UL approved. UL approval requires sending them several copies of the product, most of which are destroyed in testing, plus a hefty fee which I've heard is $10,000 or more. There could also be the issue of making different sizes and shapes, and whether or not each one has to be tested independently. I read something earlier today that said for one of a kind work that is commissioned, an electrical engineer can sign off on it since it can't be UL approved. That was for one specific state, though (Minnesota), and It wasn't very clear if that meant any a licensed electrician, or the electrical inspector for the town, or what. It seems that this is a very gray area, not just for potters, but for woodworkers and others, too. Some people say that you just have to have UL listed parts, and others say that the entire lamp has to be approved. I tend to agree with the latter, as the method of construction can affect the safety of the lamp. But again, there is no affordable way for a small producer to get their products approved.

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Yes as i under stand it the unit as a whole needs to be UL inspected not just the electrical components.

By letting a different company wire them then you do transfer part of the liability.

 

I will not be throwing any lamp bases this weekend.  

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Guest JBaymore

You are responsible for any product you make (manufacture).  Get product liability insurance.  Make the business an LLC.

 

best,

 

...............john

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I think your lawyer's given you good advice, if you're determined to make lamps. Could you buy the wiring kits wholesale and sell them alongside the bases?

Lamps are kind of a slippery slope, though. Some customers can't visualize a shade - should we choose that for them, too? Some are handy, or know someone who is. Others want you to hold their hand - can you just point them to Angie's List, etc.?

I like best the pre-wired platform bases with a shaft up the back for the wiring. You can put any beautiful piece on the platform without having to limit the pot by putting a hole or hardware in it.

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Get business liability insurance

​I did this about 25 years ago and suggest it strongly.

Then do not worry about -As neil said you will not get UL approved. Just use top quality parts and pay attention to detail putting them together. Someone can choke on a sponge holder but that has not stopped me selling 10,000 of them (lowball figure )

 

A note on UL label from consumer reports-

2,000 to 8,000 per product plus audit fee of $4,000 to $7,000

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I was in the sign business for over 20 years and worked with illuminated signs.

What I can tell you is that a lot of those signs were never UL approved unless the customer requested it. UL certification was mandatory in certain circumstances, like installations in a shopping mall or on lit signs on certain buildings. Usually large Union run projects. Some local ordinances may require UL lit signs for businesses. 

 

Two extremely large sign shops in our area built UL approved signs. From what I have seen you'll need about twenty employees under you or more to generate the kind of income you need to make a UL approved product. The average sole proprietor is probably not going to be able to afford the costs associated with becoming UL certified. The non UL company's in our area greatly outnumber the UL certified company's. If the non UL company's needed a UL approved sign it was built and certified by one of the two UL sign manufactures.

 

Construction methods for UL signs were very specific and generic. Meaning that a sign was constructed exactly the way UL wanted it and UL construction was generically applied to all signs and sign shapes, big or small. All UL signs were then registered with UL individually by serial number and required additional paperwork. The UL sign shops were inspected to make sure things were up to their standards.

 

 99.9% of your mom & pop stores and businesses could care less about the UL label and assumed that you built a safe sign. Safe signs were built some were to UL standards some were not.

 

What you have to understand is that the UL people are pretty smart and the UL label usually gets you a safe product. I and the sign industry can tell you from servicing signs this is not always the case. We built signs that were not UL approved and they were safe. The alternative methods of sign construction are based on years of experience in very specific areas. An educated sign shop owner would make a judgment call for their piece of mind. 

As a business owner your going to be liable for your product either way.

 

If you make a 1,000 lamps a day, employ dozens of people, and those people rely on you, your going to need the UL label to be successful.

If your selling or buying hand made items on ebay and etsy it's a 99% probably it's not UL.

 

Creating a LLC as suggested is probably your first step. Even then with UL or not, you can be sued.

 

I think a good example would be a patent. Some people and Corporations spend over $10,000 for a patent and never make the item, never have money to enforce the patent or have money left to make the item. Sometimes your just better off by taking a chance and making the item or spending $80.00 for a Patent pending for some peace of mind. There are plenty of company's who never get a patent on a product intentionally.

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Did a few more emails with my lawyer.  There is a good chance that i will make the bases and test fit the threaded rods to make sure one would fit and stand straight.  He says selling the lamp kits are out and suggesting what lamp kit to buy is out.  He says to market them as lamp bases and if anyone wants any more information about turning them into a lamp to send them to a lamp repair shop or to talk to an electrician.

 

At some point i will make 10 or so to see how they sell. 

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When you start with a Lawyer you will end with one or at least a bigger bill.

I would use the highest quality parts and not worry about it after I had the insurance . I have potter friends who have sold working lamps for 4 plus decades .

As far as suing it can happen over a napkin.

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Guest JBaymore

 He says selling the lamp kits are out and suggesting what lamp kit to buy is out.  He says to market them as lamp bases and if anyone wants any more information about turning them into a lamp to send them to a lamp repair shop or to talk to an electrician.

 

Do you run every item you make thru your lawyers approval before selling?  What does he have to say about mugs, casseroles, teapots and the like?

 

best,

 

.................john

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The only 2 items i have talked to my lawyer about have been candle holders and lamps.

 

I worked for my large family pottery for years and left about a year ago.  I do remember a few people that were going to sue.  One was from a lady that burnt he house down using a candle holder they had made, one for exploding something that they had set on a wood fired grill, and there was something from when i was young that i was never told the details.

 

My location is a tourist trap weekend town.  Luckily i have not made a mug in 11 months and love it.  I do fermentation pots, a lots of different types of vases, pitchers, storage crocks, mixing bowels, serving platters, party plates (divided plates), so art type stuff, and what ever else i think of.  We do not have a set line of items as i never want to work as a production potter again.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I once had a side business making aroma therapy oil lamps-a tea candle went in pot and warmed scented oil.They stink up your house and made you feel fine or grossed you out-I was never a fan of the smells myself.

We wholesaled many many many thousands of them-they where slipcast.We had a small crew doing this work at an offsite location. I fired them in my car kiln. We moved them in green state. I tested them many many times as well so I knew they could stand up to the heat . They where porcelain fire to cone 10. They where very tough.

You may have heard of the company we sold them to as they are a still in  the herb business-Frontier herbs. This was in the mid 90's thru early 2000's.I bought out my partner 1/2 was they a ten year run with this company.

I also made oil lamps in the early 90's from thrown Porcelain-I also tested them for leakage before marketing them.

I'm a big believer in testing products for any issues before turning them loose.

I do have liability insurance but have never been even close to any suits.

People who barbecue pots or try to swallow a spoonrest usually put you at zero risk from stupid behaviors in terms of liability .

As long as your pots work as they should (do not leak or crack) you should be fine.

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They stink up your house and made you feel fine or grossed you out-I was never a fan of the smells myself.

 

LOL, aint that the truth. The company we made the lamps for had one named "Clean Linen" that burned your eyes and made it difficult to breathe. I told my wife they should rename it to "Tear Gas" or "Cleared Room". I always told folks who bought oil from us, "This is the stuff you want to burn if you have unwanted guests and it's time for them to leave".....and they always got some. :lol:

 

Not to hijack, but I'd love to see or hear about this car kiln.

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