Weight Difference Between Commercial Plates And Handmade Plates

[preeta]

sorry for more questions....   i've tried to research this and ask around but havent received a good reply. its been bugging me for a whole year. 

 

right now i am an unemployed hospice caregiver. and one of the problems i face are handmade plates. i've worked for patients who love their heath ware or local pottery. but its too heavy for them sometimes.

 

so, many change to commercial sets that you get in regular stores.

 

why are commercial sets lighter than handmade stuff. i know they are slip molded. but what exactly makes them lighter?

 

i made myself some super thin mold plates a couple of months ago and used unscratchable white glaze and testing out to see if they would break easily.

 

 

 

 

 

[preeta]

sorry for more questions....   i've tried to research this and ask around but havent received a good reply. its been bugging me for a whole year. 

 

right now i am an unemployed hospice caregiver. and one of the problems i face are handmade plates. i've worked for patients who love their heath ware or local pottery. but its too heavy for them sometimes.

 

so, many change to commercial sets that you get in regular stores.

 

why are commercial sets lighter than handmade stuff. i know they are slip molded. but what exactly makes them lighter?

 

i made myself some super thin mold plates (yup dreaded bmix ^5) a couple of months ago and used unscratchable white glaze and testing out to see if they would break easily. still holding out without chips yet. handwashing not dishwasher. had to make a few before i figured out the right thickness so the rims would not crack. 

[JLowes]

Greetings preeta,

Basically, handmade plates are thicker, so heavier. Slip cast commercial plates I have read, are bisque fired to the higher temperature, then glazed and fired to the lower temperature, and the industrial controls on even drying, rate of progress through from slip to finished plate are much tighter than most potters can achieve. This reduces losses from warping. Some manufacturing facilities have a continuous process that gets the ware done in hours, not the days we usually take for handmade.

I recently made a couple of four piece sets for my own home use utilizing a 1/4" slab for all pieces. My bread and salad plates didn't warp, but the dinner plates did warp slightly. The larger size just couldn't keep its shape, but the weight was acceptable. Less than my Fiesta Ware. Good luck with yours.

 

John Lowes

Wynhill Pottery LLC

http:// wynhillpottery.weebly.com

[Joseph Fireborn]

I think a key think about plates is the weight isn't a huge factor. They sit on a surface for a long duration as we eat out of them, we don't pick up plates over and over like cups, mugs, etc. So I don't think the weight matters a lot, if anything I think the thicker the better to a reasonable amount. Obviously you don't want a 5# plate, but I have seen some commercial plates that are heavy as bricks. My commercial plates are light and thin and are all chipped on the rims and cracked. I only have 4-5 left out of the original set I was given a few years ago. So when I end up making dinner ware mine will be on the heavier side for plates.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Marcia Selsor]

you answered you're own question. Also there is one opinion (of many) that the 'generosity of clay" should be evident in handmade work. This is not obvious in Europe where potters are much more thrifty with their supplies.

 

Marcia

[Denice]

My daily dinnerware is a set I made, I tried to keep it as thin as possible but it is still heavier than most modern day commercial sets.  I did run across a stoneware set that was as heavy as mine.  It was about 50 years old, it was my mother in-laws, she had given it to my son for his first apartment.  It was a set for 12 and he managed to destroy the whole set.  Denice

[Marko]

Maybe it's not how there made, but more about what the person wants. Commercial pottery is a business, that does not cater to individuals, but rather for everyone's need. Unless you can give them a large order, you get what everyone else gets. That's not to say that's bad, because it's not; they can keep their cost down, hire chemist and other professional people. But, when you get buy from the individual potter or small pottery, it can be custom made to meet your specific needs. And there's the feel and look of antiquity in handmade pottery. And while Commercial pottery is very durable, I don't think you'll find them in a collector's cabinet or museums. But, I think from what you are wanting to use the ware for, it is better to go with commercial. But keep trying to make what you can and have fun doing it.

[neilestrick]

I think a key think about plates is the weight isn't a huge factor. They sit on a surface for a long duration as we eat out of them, we don't pick up plates over and over like cups, mugs, etc. So I don't think the weight matters a lot, if anything I think the thicker the better to a reasonable amount. 

 

My customers all say the opposite. They want my handmade plates to be as close to the thinness of a commercial plate as possible. True, they sit on the table most of the time, but lifting them in and out of upper cabinets can be difficult if they are heavy, especially for older or weaker folks.

[Joseph Fireborn]

 

I think a key think about plates is the weight isn't a huge factor. They sit on a surface for a long duration as we eat out of them, we don't pick up plates over and over like cups, mugs, etc. So I don't think the weight matters a lot, if anything I think the thicker the better to a reasonable amount. 

 

My customers all say the opposite. They want my handmade plates to be as close to the thinness of a commercial plate as possible. True, they sit on the table most of the time, but lifting them in and out of upper cabinets can be difficult if they are heavy, especially for older or weaker folks.

 

 

That is interesting. I didn't think about it from that perspective as I only ever take out 2-3 plates at a time since only 3 people in our family. Our plates are super light though and they are all commercial made and chipped. My wife wants to get fiesta ware because she likes how heavy and thick they are. I can see reaching in to get 5-6 plates if they weigh a lot could be absurdly difficult for an elderly person.

 

I just made some porcelain plates for testing glazes on and to practice throwing them. I made mine thin, the rim is a little over 1/4'' thick. I don't know the final weight yet, because I haven't glazed and fired them.

[preeta]

yes that's the reason why most of the wives protested and wanted to get commercial ware, while its the men who wanted to keep the handmade ware. it wasnt the men setting the table. however for even the men holding a dessert plate in hand while watching tv (so not on table) was hard on their wrist.

 

more questions....

 

if i were able to make a plate as thin as commercial ware without warping, would they be as strong as commercial ware using ^5 clay?

 

would a ^10 be 'stronger' than a ^5 - everything else being equal.

[neilestrick]

A clay body that matures at cone 5 will be just as strong as a body that matures at cone 10, as long as it is fired to maturation.

[Guest JBaymore]

One of the tests that I sometimes have the students in my ceramic materials class perform is a MOR test.  That stands for 'Modulus of Rupture'.  It is a measure of one aspect of the strength of a clay body.  Look up the term for the explanations of how to do the test.

 

It is not all that hard a test to set up the correct methodology for "at home".  To be totally comparable to industrial standards numbers you'd have to go one extra step that is not easy to do (required machining equipment)......... but the numbers you'd get without that one part of the puzzle are reasonably close enough to be accurate. 

 

And if done the same way in the "home version"... are totally accurate between samples you might test yourself.

 

When they perform that test, they discover that there are often significant differences in the strength between different body formulations developed for the same cone range.  Absorption and MOR do not necessarily correlate.

 

We often make up for body formulation issues by taking steps to "work around" those issues.  Like making a piece thicker to prevent firing warping or to make it stronger.

 

best,

 

..........................john

[PeterH]

A Digitalfire article provides an interesting footnote to John's comments on 'Modulus of Rupture'.

 

The MOR of two bodies was measured unglazed and with five versions of a Butter Matte glaze.

porcelain unglazed=9122 glazed from=5597 to=3811

stoneware unglazed=3955 glazed from=8135 to=3930

 

https://digitalfire.com/4sight/education/the_effect_of_glaze_fit_on_fired_ware_strength_202.html

[Mark C.]

I have noticed that my older clients usually favor lighter dinnerware . My mother (long gone) switched from the set I made her to a commercial set later in life. My sister has done the same in her 70's.

Its a fact of life that we as we age do not handle heavier items as well.

I used to make paper thin pots but my customers gave me the feedback of breakage woes now I make them to last which are heavier. I do not make custom weights for people anymore so at an art show I always have a two piles of dinnerware for sale (two colors) at least 8 of dinner and 8 salad so thats 32 plates at each show as a minimum and they either like them or move on.

Most potters never take dinnerware to shows so I tend to sell a lot this way.

[preeta]

thank you john. i am in the process of making friends with the state univ's professor and see if i can find some info from him. see if i can use their machine if they already havent done the test themselves.

 

WOAH this is a big realization for me. if you do things right, there is no difference in strength between say a plate from target or plates i make. wow. i always thought since the particle size of the clay in casting slip (i assumed) was smaller than our clay that it would vitrify better and form a stronger ware. 

 

Peter thank you for finding the article. gave me good insight. i found a couple of others that were interesting that explained the cracks. 

 

Mark the plates that we throw at school are HEAVY!!!! thick. generous clay. i wont be making plates till winter. that gives me enough time to experiment and find a clay body i like without issues so that i can have better control of the plates. but i refuse to make them that thick and heavy. or at least that's my intention. i dont know what amout of clay we start off with to make plates with. 

 

do you sell plates in a set - set of 4 or 8 dinner plates? or singles?

 

i looked up robin hopper's weights and he uses 4 pounds for a large 12 inch dinner plate. 3/8 inch. wow!

[Mark C.]

I sell plates at my booth as singles but often sell them in sets. I have 6 packed up with 6 salad plates to ship out Monday  via UPS to AZ customer.

I used to only make them as orders but gave up orders years ago now. My plates have foot and are glazed on bottom-The photos of them I posted here a year or two ago so you could search that out-I think other also had photos of plates.

When plates get over 11 or 12 inches they do not fit in dishwashers and standard cabinets .Something else to consider.

[Guest JBaymore]

 

When plates get over 11 or 12 inches they do not fit in dishwashers and standard cabinets .Something else to consider.

 

These are the kinds of details that many people miss when producing objects.  Nice, Mark.

 

best,

 

...............john

[oldlady]

have to agree with the suggestions that older folks want to get lighter weight dishes because storage is usually in upper cabinets.  i am currently using Corning's Corelle in the tiny trailer in florida because i saw a wonderfully colorful pattern and loved it.  the best part is that it is not at all bothered by the microwave and it is extremely light.  if i take it outside, i don't worry about breakage.

 

there are several sets of commercially made dishes here in wv.  they are in upper cabinets and lower ones and are hard on my hands.  mostly when i stack a pile from the dishwasher into the upper cabinets.  i have to learn not to pile up 7 or 8 to put away.  just like learning not to bring in all the full, plastic grocery bags in a single trip from the car when i return from shopping.  

 

we all need to adjust as we age.  though i still feel like i am eleven, the mirror, when i bother to look in it, says i am not.

 

i am sorry, preeta, that you are so far away from Highwater clay in NC.  their little loafers clay is really sturdy.  i smash inch thick slabs straight out of the bag onto the concrete floor at least 3 times.  those platelets are awake when they get rolled through the slab roller and they make a truly compacted plate when they are finished.  i truly believe that there is no need for thickness and weight, just strength.

 

 look for a good clay body.

[preeta]

oldlady i am just miffed i have to actually look for a good clay body. the info is not just out there for ^5 clay body. i feel like i should not have to reinvent the wheel.

 

my potter friends here all use ^10 clay. so i have a lot of info about good ^10 clay body. 

 

i could go to another community college (i will when i take the sculpture class) where they do ^10 but the drawback is they dont fire that often. so i have been spoiled by my present school. if you can make the amount of work they will fire it. so i feel i need to do my abc's at ^5 and then move on to cone 10 with better knowledge. 

 

where i am if i want to pay to fire, the only options i have are upto ^5/6 electric. to do cone 10 i need to find a potter to share a kiln with. at this point i feel i am too new to join a local studio and bombard them with questions. yet the teacher here is 84 who still teaches and fires her olsen gas kiln. i hope one day i am able to take a class with her. 

 

aaaaah john. no wonder hopper has two sizes of dinner plates. 10 and 11.5 inches. 

[Mark C.]

 

 

When plates get over 11 or 12 inches they do not fit in dishwashers and standard cabinets .Something else to consider.

 

These are the kinds of details that many people miss when producing objects.  Nice, Mark.

 

best,

 

...............john

 

Thanks for the complement John

I made the customers 12 inch plates once and they did not fit in either cupboard or dishwasher Its the last time I ever made that size again now they are 10.5 at the most,

[Pres]

I make the patens larger for display reasons, more like a platter. I also did not want to encourage someone slamming them into a dishwasher. Most of the time they just sit on an alter somewhere anyway. Whenever I am throwing plates for home or others I did not think much about size of plate for storage, or for dishwasher. Now that we are renovating a kitchen, actually gutting it, these thoughts come to the surface. Thanks for the tips, Mark, as this will help us along our kitchen cabinet choices.

 

 

best,

Pres 

[Babs]

Size of plates is interesting for all sorts of reasons.

When my kids were little I'd put their serve on a big plate, so that they would eat it all up, fooled them into thinking they were getting just a little meal, both were browsers and I was trying to get them "sorted" before going to school.

But I swear I had to put on my hiking boots to go out into the white yonder in search of my meal when in restaurant for dinner. The plate was like an ice shelf. Poor restaurant staff would have had to develop special muscles to handle them.

Thanks for the measurement tip Mark, I'll write that in the book now.