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I've been using an L&L electric kiln for the last 10 years, and am considering purchasing a front loading downdraft gas kiln.  I'm interested in something in the order of 9 cubic feet, or perhaps a bit larger.  Olympic makes the model DD9.  Laguna makes the model LE-200-9 for about the same price, but is a little larger than the Olympic.  Bailey makes the model M-404-007 in a size that is between the two above, but you have to call to get a price quote.  The Laguna gas kilns look interesting in that you can get an electronic controller as an option.  The problem that I am having is that I cannot find any comparisons by users of these kilns.  However, I have found single blogs on each of these where users complain of poor quality, workmanship, can't get up to cone 10, uneven firing, poor customer support, etc.  So, it seems like its a crap shoot.  I really don't know whose kiln to buy.

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Before you buy a gas kiln, check to make sure you can actually put one in your studio. The fire codes and venting requirements governing gas kilns are completely different than with electric kilns. Many municipalities consider it to be an industrial tool, so they have to be in a building zoned for that. Once you've selected a kiln, talk to your gas company to make sure you can get the necessary volume of gas to supply that model, and get quotes on running the gas lines or setting up a propane system. I spent about $8,000 back in 2004 getting my kiln plumbed and vented. It took 2 months to get the permits. When I moved my shop in 2008 it was going to cost $12,000 just for the gas line, and $6,000 to move the venting system to the new location. There were also so many issues with the fire codes that it just wasn't financially practical to stay with gas. That's when I switched to electric. I guess what I'm saying is do all your homework before you buy anything. The kiln itself is only part of the cost, and the easiest part of the purchase.

 

As for brands, I don't think there's a lot of difference from brand to brand. I would avoid any kiln with fiber because of lung safety and durability, and make sure it has an arch. Anything else is just a way to cut costs and won't last as long. I know folks who love their Bailey kilns and their Geil kilns. A big part of the decision is which type of burners you want. I'm a big fan of forced air- I feel like I have a lot more control with them. Personally, I say buy a set of forced air burners from Ward and build the kiln yourself. You'll cut your cost a ton and get exactly what you want. An electronic controller is nice as a high temp safety shutoff, but you'll need to fire manually unless you go with a full on computerized system.

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are you really put off Bailey by a phone call? 

 

I find it annoying, too. Just put the base price on the web site. Even if customers have to call to place an order, put the information out there. That's what I do on my site. Why have a web site advertising your products for sale if you don't show prices? This is the age of information. If I wanted to talk to you I would use the yellow pages. Super annoying.

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are you really put off Bailey by a phone call? 

 

I would be. I hate this tactic. I don't even do business with people who can't put a price on their products up front. It would be different if everything was custom built, but they are selling products that they have built before, they know the price. Put it on the darn website. Drives me bonkers when I am looking for things and I see, "call for pricing".. WHY so when I call, you can ask my name, email, phone number, and then bother me endlessly.

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I personally like Geil gas kilns that would be my second choice with Bailey as a third

My 1st choice is build my own which I have done many times

The 4th choice would be a Cooperworks kiln

I have a friend with one and is very happy with it"

These are all well made brands. For cone 10 you need k 26 bricks especially in the hot spots

I have seen a shuttle kiln made by Olymic and would avoid this brand as that friend is not a happy camper with his

It's super cheaply made

Laguna kilns are all 3 party made and score low and I am not impressed so another no vote

 

Ceramic products do not get reviewed much anymore the market is small

In the old days a few decades ago like the 70s studio potter did review stuff but those days are long gone

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I just delivered a new Laguna LE-200-16 downdraft to one of my customers last week. Super impressed with workmanship and brick fit. They offer brick upgrades and even a digital option with computer controlled valves. All for added expense of course. Keep in mind arch space is included in cu ft listed.

 

Edit: they may have been 3rd party in the past but this was done in house and shipped from the southern California city of industry location.

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I did the first lightup on a Laguna kiln a few years back for a local college, and it seemed to be a well built kiln. They had a wiring issue that took me all day to figure out- it was marked wrong on the wiring diagram that they used to wire it- but other than that no problems, and I would expect that they've since fixed that issue.

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Thanks everyone for your most helpful information.  Incidentally, I did not say that I was unhappy with Bailey.  I merely stated that I could not find a price lists.  I am not unhappy with any manufacturer since I have absolutely no experience with any gas kiln.  

 

I live in a county, and they are pretty lax when it comes to a small gas kiln.  I will be using propane as a fuel, and am considering a 100 gallon tank.  That should give me about 10 firings between refills.  I will use my electric kiln for bisques.  

 

So, from the above, it looks like a Laguna with a brick upgrade,  A Geil, or a Bailey.  I haven't read anything good yet about Olympic kilns.  But, some of these blogs go back a dozen years.  A gentleman that I have emailed at Olympic Kilns by the name of CK Haugen claims that they have improved immensely and that they sell a ton of kilns to many happy customers.  But then again, I would guess that all kiln manufacturers would say that. I did notice that their downdraft front loading kilns do not have an arch and Neil Estrick stated that this is something to make sure that it has. 

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Also consider the process and cost of moving a factory built kiln into your studio. It generally takes a fork lift, or at the very least a pallet jack and a smooth rolling surface.  It will depend on how the kiln was built as to which method is required to move it. Check your clearances. An overhead door makes things easier.

 

When I sell L&L front loading kilns there's a 5 page checklist that has to be completed so there's no chance of a problem with installation when the kiln arrives. I've done installs at schools where we had to move the kiln all the way through to the other end of of the school, then up the freight elevator, then back to the other end of the school, winding around to specific double doorways that it could fit through once the middle dividers were removed. It took 3 hours to uncrate and move one big front loader into place on the 7th floor at a local college.

 

Building one on site can take as little as 2 days. Two of us built the soda kiln at Lill Street Art Center in Chicago over a weekend, and that kiln was mortared. With soft brick you don't have to mortar anything, so it goes up really fast. Call the local college and see if they want to make it a workshop for the students *free help*. If you don't know how to weld, you can learn in a few minutes with a simple $150 gasless wire feed welder. Kiln welds don't have to be pretty. That's why god invented angle grinders.

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Thanks again guys for your excellent advice.  It probably would be cheaper to build one, but my budget will permit me to buy one and not have to eat Ramen Noodles for several years.  I am really liking the Laguna gas kiln.  However, I haven't found any distributors that sell them though.  It seems that I can only buy them from Axner Pottery Supply, and at their price.  My L&L kiln is an E23 T and the specifications say 7 cubic feet.  I always thought that this was the internal volume.  The Laguna model LE-200-4 says 7.9 cubic feet.  They also state that the "Stacking Area" is 16" x 16" by 29".  This last dimension computes to 4.3 cubic feet.  So, I am confused.  Why do they say that the interior volume is almost 8 cubic feet, but the stacking volume is only 4.3 cubic feet?

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Gas kilns require a good amount space around the shelves for air flow. This is especially true for forced air burners where the burners come in horizontally on either side of the stacking area. We call these spaces the fireboxes, and are usually about 6 inches wide, plus the thickness of a brick (3") for the bag/baffle wall, then an inch or two to the shelves. In a kiln with venturi burners coming in from the bottom, there's less space on the sides of the stack, but still some. Electric kilns do not require that empty space for air flow. My 23 cubic foot stacking space kiln was roughly a six foot cube on the outside. My 21 cubic foot electric kiln is only 4.5'long x 3.5' deep x 4' tall. Electric kilns are a much more efficient use of space.

 

Laguna should be listing the kilns by their kilns by stacking space, not total interior volume, because stacking space is what matters. You can hang things over the edges of the shelves, but that doesn't really count. 16" square by 29" tall a really small stacking area, roughly equal to an L&L e18T. I have one of those, and I can barely fit a dinner plate on a shelf.

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That Axner web site is a mess! Way too much information to sort through. Anyway, if you look at the next size up on the gas kilns, they say it's 16 cubic feet. Then they say the stacking area is 24x24x30, which means 10 cubic feet of actual stacking space. But then if you look at the shelf kit, it uses 11"x22" shelves! It should use 12x24 shelves to match the 24x24 stacking space. You also have to figure that the 30" height is to the top of the arch, so it's really not as tall as they say, either. So the actual stacking space with those shelves is closer to 8 cubic feet. Totally crappy sales tactics there. If you can sort out all their fuzzy numbers, I do think it will be a good kiln, but I'd call them and make them tell you some real dimensions.

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Venting is a big issue with a gas kiln. Depending on your situation, you could do a straight up natural draft with no fan (cheapest), or a powered horizontal vent (more $$$). Bailey and Laguna sell vent kits that go with their kilns, which may or may not be cheaper than having it done by your local HVAC guy. Get lots of quotes. The hood is a custom job, so prices can vary greatly.

 

Buying a gas kiln is your new hobby. It will consume every free minute of your life. Excel is your new best friend.

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I like a kiln that takes standard 12x 24 inch shelves-I would consider this as a starting point on what to buy. These shelves hold a lot of pots and the shelves are standard which are the pest prices as they make them the most. I have always designed kilns for 12 x 24 inch shelves.

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I taught at a college that had several different gas kilns. Most were built on site by the dept chair who really knew what he was doing. On a branch campus they had a Bailey. I can't remember which size but it wasn't huge. It fired very well and the company was great with support. I like a lot of the things Bailey makes. Definitely don't rule them out.

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Just My2Sense.

I recently bought a used Olympic 2827 gas kiln.

A search right here will tell you they are very hard if not nearly impossible to fire evenly.

So if your new to firing gas kilns, even though they're more affordable, I'd shy away from them.

Get something that has a great reputation for firing easily.

 

IMG_4431-XL.jpg

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