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Peterpugger Mixers


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Zeroing in on the porcelain body formulation/s I want, so its time to shop for a mixer/pugger. In tile work, it is easy to blow through 500lbs in one day: it is not overly labor intensive to make. I have been looking at the PeterPugger VPM 30 & 60, as well as their standard mixer/s. I already have a portable cement mixer that I have cleaned up and will be using it to dry mix up to 300lbs of clay materials before loading into a pugger.  My plan it to dry mix/store 1000-2000lbs of blended dry mix, then load the pugger as needed. I do not want to stop and weigh/ blend materials every time I load the pugger. Anyone have working knowledge/experience with PeterPugger?

Nerd

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I own a VPM 30 and love it
It says it holds 85#s but really it works about 60# s as it always has 20 #s stuck in it.
I never clean mine out as I do not need to.
TheVPM 60 is a huge unit.
The thing is porcelain will pit the aluminum barrel over time.
I bought mine used and it was already pitted from low fire white ware clay from high school use.
You can have it sandblasted say every 5 years or leave it be and pit slowly or clean it.
When I need a new barrel if that ever happens in my lifetime I,ll just buy one.
The seals keep the clay moist always as air cannot get in so I choose to not spend any time cleaning clay out of equipment meant for clay. If you did it would never pit
The hopper size goes up with each model if I recall
You may want to check this unit as bigger is easier to load
The 30 has a nice size hopper the 60 may be even larger hopper.
I choose to let it pit until it holds to much clay in barrel
The VPM 20 is the largest they make out of stainless as it a bear to c&c such a large chunk is stainless
I can mix 500#s in just over an hour maybe 1.5 hrs?
I love this machine and wish I bought one as soon as they added the vacuum feature as it makes a perfect clay with zero air in it.
If you want to talk about it pm me with your # and I'll call you as I,m on a small island in the middle of the pacific now
I have had mine a few years now and only use it for wet scraps or blending bodies or wetting(softening) bodies
If you add to much water the clay will spin as a whole unit no matter what kind of clay
My personal opinion is this is the best machine for blending or pugging
Most folks buy a to small unit as they can hold up to a pug in the barrel at all times After pugging so you want one that is large enough to match your production and keep in mind a 20 to 25 #s will always be in unit.

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The Peter Pugger is a quality piece of equipment. The ones I have worked with functioned as a mixer/vacuum/pug. This is very good if you are mixing smaller batches. But processing 500 lbs of mixed clay in this fashion was a little tedious. I believe it was a VPM-20 (45 lb batch load) so the larger size would not be bad.

I have read the Shimpo mixer/pug mills are also industrial quality.

 

...

 

The VPM 30 & 60 have an aluminum body. Your porcelain will corrode it faster than you might like.  I have heard that regular steel is fine if you run the equipment daily.

--

 

You probably should have gotten it before all the work of formulation was done. It would have been helpful to mix your test batches!

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I had a very early model which I got used. It was rusted from neglect and flaking into the clay. It could mix a lot of clay. That was about 1980. They have been getting better ever since. They are a quality mixer. I like my Bailey de-airing. I have repugged porcelain in it. It has a cast aluminum body. I clean it after every use. They also make quality equipment.

Marcia

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Mark-Matthew- Marcia--ty for the response.

The auger is stainless, I just assumed the chamber was as well: need to check that. Guess I could epoxy the interior chamber walls to prevent pitting. I was thinking the VPM30-TE was the right choice, but perhaps I should rethink the VPM60. Had this assembly line idea drawn out on my CAD system,  thought the 30 would work better. However, the 30 has a 2HP motor, and the 60 has a 3HP motor: that caught my eye as well. Mark, it will be late summer before I purchase; so when you get back in town let me know, will shoot you my phone number. Marcia: will look at the Bailey's again, and Matthew the Shimpo's as well. TY for the input.

Nerd

 

Mark- by the way you need to look at Emery's Nicron Talc series as a replacement for Desert.

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I,ll check out the talc

The barrels are all powder coated exteriors and the SS series are stainless up thru a 20

They no longer make steel barrels they are aluminum cast in San Francisco Bay Area. Unless they are stainless

I spent some hours at the factory a few years ago getting my parts at its 3 hours away on the way to SF

All the augers are stainless.

I have had mine completely apart to install new seals.

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+1 for the stainless Bailey mixer / pugger.

 

I used it for making clay for a while, now for reclaiming any dryness of clay scrap or adding water to clay that has dried out too much. Lot of heavy, dusty work making enough clay for production use. 

 

I seem to remember some horror stories from a few years back where some people tried epoxy coating the inside of the aluminum Peter Puggers, had chunks of the epoxy wear off I believe. 

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You probably should have gotten it before all the work of formulation was done. It would have been helpful to mix your test batches!

Matthew:

I started out making 200 gram test batches: enough to make a few test bars. I have been slowly creating my own set of formula limits specifically for crystalline glaze. I know from testing the glaze for years what elements hinder or promote crystal development.With that information, the clay bodies are formulated around that criteria. I have the sodium, potassium, magnesium, and iron limits set now. I am currently adjusting the silica to alumina ratios: increasing the alumina higher than standard porcelain bodies for added strength. This glaze is applied three times heavier than conventional glazes and the mechanical stress on the clay is outrageous. In addition, testing alternate sources of fluxes besides the usual feldspars: way too unstable for my taste. So now I have graduated to 1000 gram batches and making a few tiles to "torture" test. Fortunately, I have years of experience blending granulated epoxies: so mixing small batches of clay is no big deal. 

Nerd

 

Min: There are box store epoxies, and then there are epoxies.When I worked on the brewery, the accelerator was stored in freezers because as soon as it hit room temperature: it would start steaming.

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  • 5 months later...

Mark-marcia-Neil-Matthew--whomever with experiences.

 

Was reviewing the specs on a VPM60TE over the weekend: have a question. The VPM 60TE comes with an upgraded 3HP. 18 amp motor, and a separate 1/2HP motor for de-airing. Ran some new circuits in the studio today in preparation for some future equipment purchases. .I ran a 2- 10/3 wires over for the service on this piece. I always run the next higher rated wire over what the maker requires for extra capacity, and to compensate for the length of run. 

 

My question is: does the 240v system provide smoother operation of the pugger? I think the standard VPM 60 comes with a 2HP if I am not mistaken? My thought was if I use this as much as I believe I will, to me it only makes sense to jump another 1HP in motor capacity. My supplier and I have already talked about stocking 2 of my custom porcelain bodies" although the market for them is not that large. (technical bodies).

 

Nerd

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I always like 240 over 120 on stationary equipment . My peter pugger which is the VPM 30 has two cords one for the motor on mixer and another for the motor on Vac system motor-yours will be the same.

I like the 3 hp idea as its best to stress the motor less.The cost will be small in the long run-I cannot say it will be smoother.My pug comes out very smooth.

I think what will affect this more will be the outfeed setup? rollers or whatever has less drag.

 

After reading about the back pressure on this unit I would go with the 3 hp motor in a heartbeat.These come with a variable speed output as well to control output speed for one person.

You will happy with the construction of their products .I use mine every week almost daily usually.

Mark

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we have the little vm9 25lb and it works great for reclaim. Smaller but u can save some dough if you are doing small batches. I confess I let ours build up and then do 10 or so 5 gallon buckets at at time. We are fixing to do a round so I can let you know turn around. Not going to do it like Marks but unless you find one used the price diference migh make it worth it. I built a large rolling table for ours as the VM9 is tabletop.

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People forget that most pugger/mixers hold some clay in the barrel . That is not all the clay comes out so whatever model you buy remember it will not extrude the maxuim amount . So a 25 ib only puts out less than that.My 85# only puts out 60-75# max. I cannot even imagine what the output of the new hobby Petter Pugger 7 is really. It must be about 4-5#s which is really not worth your time. I always suggest getting one that meets your future needs.

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Glazenerd i've been reading a lot of old CMs from school. there was a long discussion in one of the 90's or even 80's issue about why its important to have a pugger with all stainless steel parts as they said the porcelain claybody is so finicky. i'll check in school and find the issue if you'd like to read it. 

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  • 6 months later...

Hi folks, I still have real issues with my VPMSS20 Peter Pugger stainless steel mixer that I bought some months ago. I work with porcelain on the wheel and mostly need it for mixing stiff porcelain clay. It would be great if you could help me with your experience.

 

There are two main problems:

- The pug roll ALWAYS has little air bubbles in the first 30 inches, mostly on the outside to 1 inch deep. The really always friendly team of Peter Pugger said the reason is that it's too full loaded so the connection to the vacuum chamber is blocked and this causes air getting into the mixing chamber when I switch from mix to pug. I also see the vacuum fall at that moment when the pugging begins. The manual recommendeds in that case 'stop, let vaccum settle again, mix shorthly and pug again' but that doesn't remove the air bubbles once they got in...

I tried several times to load it less full, but then it's too less for the pugging dynamic what causes the machine to empty only half!! There seems to be only a TINY tolerance between too much and too little and not something around 8 lbs as the manual says. I just put two or 3 pounds less and then it doesn't empty and I can start all new, all the mixing again as I have to add more clay and it has all to be mixed again. You can imagine, for a long day of throwing when I need 3 loads, I can prepare for 3 hours that way.

 

- also, the mixing quality to me appears not really so brilliant as it is announced. When centering, the clay is not homogen, even if I mix for 20 minutes! I throw with Limoges porcelain what is normally good for throwing, it comes very soft and I airdry it down to a stiffer state I need for throwing. Then I have to mix it again for homogenity for what I bought the machine after several times communication with the company to make sure I buy the right thing. I had the chance to try the NVAS07 before, the new mixer from shimpo, but it didn't work for me as the motor stopped in the moment when the clay consistency was just 'normal' for smaller vases, it only mixed very soft clay. But the mixing quality to me seemed far better than what comes out of my Peter Pugger. The Shimpo has bigger mixing paddles with several holes in them, through which the clay is pressed what might improve the mixing process significantly.

Yesterday, I mixed and de-aired three loads to let them rest for the night and mix them again today. Then the clay is homogen and runs smoothly on the wheel, but it still has the air bubble problem in parts of the roll. And that way it is a very time-consuming method!

 

The good thing is that the motor really doesn't stop even with stiff clay, the Shimpo NVS07 and also the Venco have that problem of a weak motor power, but surely not the Peter Pugger.

 

The promise '5 to 10 min of mixing, just let the vacuum settle and then hit pug' doesn't work for me. after 20 minutes of mixing, it is still not completely homogen. Also, if I only let the vacuum needle settle for a moment and then pug, the pug roll is completely still full of air and definately not de-aired. I wait now 3 minutes with vaccum running until I pug, what then causes water in the vacuum pump filter.

 

I'm somewhat despaired. But maybe I do the mistakes. Would be gorgeous if you have tips for me!!

All the best, Claudia

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Claudia- It sounds like maybe your problems come from mixing the clay so stiff. If it's so stiff that the other brands of puggers can't even run it, then I'm thinking it may be too stiff for the vacuum to do its job well. And stiff porcelain doesn't mix very well. Because it's so non-plastic, it has to have a certain level of wetness for it to stick to itself and blend. Ever wedged really stiff porcelain? You just end up with layers that don't stick together very well. The same thing is happening in the mixer- it's pushing it around, but it's not sticking and blending well.

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Used to use the Walker with small batches in reverse. Never worried about pitting as it was all SS. Would not work for your production amount, but for small batches it was fine. Reverse for 30 min then forward for pugging out.

 

 

best,

Pres

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Loved having the Walker at my second District!

 

It may not be great, for focused clay mixing, but for reclaiming, especially in a classroom, it was perfect.  Throw the dry scraps in the huge hopper, until full, add some saved slip or water, mix a bit, then pug out.  

 

Why they don't still make them, is beyond me!

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Claudia,

  I had some of the same issues with mine (same machine you have) initially and there are a couple tricks that work well for me. 

1)  Fill the chamber and mix as long as necessary.  I often mix very different clays (porcelain in with very dark clays) and find it mixes pretty well in just a couple minutes.  The only time I let it run 10-20 minutes is when I am adding large dry scrap that takes longer to integrate.  The first few inches to pug out does not mix well because it is generally clay that was stuck in the end that does not get integrated into the mixture.

2)  Start up the vacuum while mixing.  Stop mixing.  At this point you are probably only getting a vacuum in the smaller back chamber.  Switch to pug and turn the speed all the way down.  start pugging.  Usually about when the pug is 2-4 inches out the end the vacuum seal (caused by the clay) will break and enter the main chamber - this is when the vacuum reading will drop.  I usually stop the machine for a few second and let the vacuum catch up.  Now switch back to mix and let the pug get mostly pulled back into the machine.  Put the cover back on the end and let it mix for 10-30 seconds.  Now switch back to pug and pug out at whatever speed you like.  You are really just trying to break the clay seal that is formed along the shaft that allow the vacuum to get between the first and the main chamber.  the first 5-10 inches is usually not well mixed and sometimes has small bubbles because this is the clay in the end of the machine that does not get mixed well (see next hint to help reduce this amount).  The first few inches usually does not have a very smooth exterior, but I don't worry about this.

3) One more trick - When I am done pugging out everything in there I switch back to mix before releasing the vacuum.  This allows the machine to pull a lot of clay back into the main chamber and reduced the amount left in the end.  There is often a dramatic pop and hiss when the vacuum breaks on the clay in the end of the nozzle. 

4) In cases of doing a lot of mixing, I would mix the clay for a few minutes, pug quickly (not worried about getting all the air out as described in #2 above), and then throw it back in for a second round.  Every couple months I am switching between cone 6 and cone 10 clays.  I clean out as much as possible before the switch and then run the first batch through a couple times to get a thorough mixture. 

 

Hopefully this all mikes sense.  There is a you-tube video of a peter pugger that showed about breaking the vacuum seal into the main chamber.  It is 10:00 in on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmADuePrHiI

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Cluadia

I have the next model larger and pump a lot of clay thru it. I never had your issues.I use only porcelain and have pugged tons thru it.

I always have the vacuum going in all operations-I have yet to mix dry clay from scratch which if I did I would mix that without a vacuum for a few minutes so its wet before vacuum is on.

I never have air bubbles in final extrusions .I think Neil said it best if you stressing out the motors on those other brands your clay is to dry/hard.

I never mix clay for 20 minutes and its always mixed well.I never put dry clay in it and if I did you would need to run it that long or longer. Porcelain does not slake well (get wet and has legs once its dry) So I only use wet clay in the mixer. If I had dry raw powdered clay the machine would mix this well but I buy my clay wet now. My machine does not have variable speeds if it did I would have it on high.

I think this brand is the best on the market and your issues are from to stiff a mix .Jeff in above post said and I agree that the clay that first comes out is whats left in barrel from last time so I tend to cut the first foot off and toss it back in hopper -mix a few minutes and then pug it all out.

I never mix small batches-the thing works best when fuller.

This machine has been awesome and paddles with holes or larger paddles will not make better clay. 

I always load mine as full as I can with zero issues.

My suggestion is mix your clay a tad softer than you have been-use the vacuum in all functions as air is what you want gone for the clay whether mixing or pugging.

Put any water in the front of hopper not the rear so its stays clear of the vacuum .Small amount are better as to wet the porcelain can spin as a whole unit .

Try these things and post the results back so we can help you more if needed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think Jeff did a good job describing how to get a good pug. A minor variation would be to not pug out all of the clay. This allows the transition area that often gets bubbles to get mixed in. A couple pug / mix cycles with vacuum on seems to get that clay mixed in. 

A few bubbles still happen.

I find mixing in a vpm 9 to be a pain.  I use a soldner studio mixer and a 4" venco for clay mixing.  The vpm 9 gets used for mixing pigment into clay and adjusting color. (I work with colored clay).

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The only thing about single auger puggers like Peter is you have to have it loaded almost full in order to get it to work. A dual auger like a Bailey's will pug almost any small amount you put in it. The single has to have enough clay in it to drag against the barrel walls so it can mix; they are VERY sensitive to how you ad water in them. Too much water too fast and the whole load will just spin inside the barrel.

 

I don't think it' about the epoxy itself as much as it's about the surface it's being stuck too. Maybe you could send it out to be anodized instead?

 

Maybe put a sacrificial zinc annode plate b/w the barrel and drive section? ( I wonder what that would do to the chemistry of the clay though?)

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