lillakiln Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Hi, I am totally new and attempting to make ceramic beads. I applied red glaze to bisque which went on orange, fired to cone 6 and it is still orange, just a darker tint. What am I doing wrong? I use a kiln sitter for temperature control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Is this a commercial glaze? may be a low fired glaze. Reds get lost when taken to higher temperatures sometimes. It depends on the glaze recipe and the firing temp recommended for that glaze. May even be as simple as stirring the pot of glaze really thoroughly and then between brushfuls as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillakiln Posted April 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Is this a commercial glaze? may be a low fired glaze. Reds get lost when taken to higher temperatures sometimes. It depends on the glaze recipe and the firing temp recommended for that glaze. May even be as simple as stirring the pot of glaze really thoroughly and then between brushfuls as well. Thanks Babs, will keep trying. I really appreciate the advice. It is a commercial glaze/slip Cesco AD1012 Chilli Red. I tried it by itself and then under a clear glaze....so much to learn....on wards and upwards!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewV Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I would expect a commercial red glaze to appear red in the container. Maybe a mistake was made at the manufacturer. Everything in the yellow-orange-red range will be done with stains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Cesco is a bit orangey red, but if you purchased this locally go look on the shelf and see if you have got a lighter looking bottle. Chilly red when I used it was a really red red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillakiln Posted April 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Thank you so much for your help Matthew and Babs I will definitely look into it. I have much to learn and it's all so very wonderful. I will just re-name the container orange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Reds are hard to get at Cone 6 since you are doing beads why don't you work with a earthenware and use low fire glaze which have great reds. Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillakiln Posted April 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Reds are hard to get at Cone 6 since you are doing beads why don't you work with a earthenware and use low fire glaze which have great reds. Denice Great, thanks Denice............I have ordered a few more glazes including another red and will give it a go. Much appreciated. Lilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I have a red and an orange commercial glazes that say "do not fire with other glazes that contain copper". Which is really useful. NOT. Very few commercial glazes state what they contain. These two glazes we've fired: thick, thin, alone, in a bisque firing, with other glazes, and they rarely ever show any colour at all, more like a tinted clear glaze. Given up on them, now use Potterycrafts ??Really Red?? - I think that's what it's called, which works great: Bottom Poppy is from the Tower, top poppies I made, one is red glaze the other is red underglaze and clear on top. ^04 bisque, ^06 glaze firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholliday Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Reds are hard to get at Cone 6 since you are doing beads why don't you work with a earthenware and use low fire glaze which have great reds. Denice I agree. Stoneware reds seem to be tricky, in my (limited) experience. In UK we don't do this 'cone' temp thing. We just do it in degrees Celcius. I can still vaguely remember degrees Fahrenheit from weather forecasts as a child (I'm nearly 55), I'm very much a beginner at ceramics! Luckily we have a brilliant class every week and a superb tutor in a well-equipped large pottery. Please don't laugh too much if I ask stupid questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 DOcholliday I think the stupid part is when one doesn't ask questions, if there is a stupid part. No such thing as a stupid question. CHillly your poppies are superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 In UK we don't do this 'cone' temp thing. We just do it in degrees Celcius. Sorry to disappoint you, but we do use cones in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 CHillly your poppies are superb. Thank you, I made a few and sold them with the proceeds going to the Royal British Legion, same as the ones from the Tower installation. So easy to do and satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillakiln Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Thanks Chilly gorgeous poppies and wonderful insight into reds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewV Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Reds are hard to get at Cone 6 since you are doing beads why don't you work with a earthenware and use low fire glaze which have great reds. Denice I agree. Stoneware reds seem to be tricky, in my (limited) experience. In UK we don't do this 'cone' temp thing. We just do it in degrees Celcius. I can still vaguely remember degrees Fahrenheit from weather forecasts as a child (I'm nearly 55), I'm very much a beginner at ceramics! Luckily we have a brilliant class every week and a superb tutor in a well-equipped large pottery. Please don't laugh too much if I ask stupid questions! New Zealand commonly used the temperatures as well. Cones are a more honest way of giving results. Here is your handy reference guide to write down: ∆06-04 (earthenware, about 1000°C), sometime earthenware is considered up to ∆1-4 (about 1100°C) ∆6, mid-fire, 1220°C ∆10, stoneware, 1300°C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholliday Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 In UK we don't do this 'cone' temp thing. We just do it in degrees Celcius. Sorry to disappoint you, but we do use cones in the UK. Well what's the point? We are taught in the pottery to use degrees Celcius. Which fits in with the rest of the scientific world...makes sense to me. PS - those poppies are absolutely brilliant. I'm going to give them a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 In UK we don't do this 'cone' temp thing. We just do it in degrees Celcius. Sorry to disappoint you, but we do use cones in the UK. Well what's the point? We are taught in the pottery to use degrees Celcius. Which fits in with the rest of the scientific world...makes sense to me. Thermocouples measure temperature only. Cones measure the heat work done in the kiln. Temperature plus time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Min says it. If you do a fast firing to a said temp the effect on your glazes can be quite different as to if you were to do a slow firing to the same temp. and if you soak at that temp then this will also effect your glaze outcome. Work done is really important for ceramics, much than the temp reached. ANd cones are another safe guard if say your thermocouple goes haywire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 now use Potterycrafts ??Really Red?? - I think that's what it's called, which works great: Correction - Potterycrafts Perfect Red... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 I always liken temperature vs cones to baking. You wouldn't put a fruit cake in the oven, switch the oven on and switch it off when it reached the cooking temperature. You wait for it to cook for a certain amount of time. Same with ceramics. The cones prove that the right amount of heat was applied to the pots for the right amount of time - heat-work as stated by Min and Babs. (And thought by lots of others too.... ) No, you don't need to use them, but by using them you can be sure that you have repeated (as best as you can) what you did last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdobay Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 I always liken temperature vs cones to baking. You wouldn't put a fruit cake in the oven, switch the oven on and switch it off when it reached the cooking temperature. You wait for it to cook for a certain amount of time. Same with ceramics. The cones prove that the right amount of heat was applied to the pots for the right amount of time - heat-work as stated by Min and Babs. (And thought by lots of others too.... ) No, you don't need to use them, but by using them you can be sure that you have repeated (as best as you can) what you did last time. fairly new to pottery as well, but is that statement about cones and heat work true??? I only question because cones ( to my understanding ) will start to melt at the right temp but not melt fully if the temp stays even regardless of the time its held at that temp.. So my understanding of cones was to ensure the kiln was getting to temp but not over, hence the use of 3cones 1 below your target ,1 at target and 1 above target temp.. Again I could be totally wrong??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 I always liken temperature vs cones to baking. You wouldn't put a fruit cake in the oven, switch the oven on and switch it off when it reached the cooking temperature. You wait for it to cook for a certain amount of time. Same with ceramics. The cones prove that the right amount of heat was applied to the pots for the right amount of time - heat-work as stated by Min and Babs. (And thought by lots of others too.... ) No, you don't need to use them, but by using them you can be sure that you have repeated (as best as you can) what you did last time. fairly new to pottery as well, but is that statement about cones and heat work true??? I only question because cones ( to my understanding ) will start to melt at the right temp but not melt fully if the temp stays even regardless of the time its held at that temp.. So my understanding of cones was to ensure the kiln was getting to temp but not over, hence the use of 3cones 1 below your target ,1 at target and 1 above target temp.. Again I could be totally wrong???Cones don't measure temperature at all. They measure heat work. They're formulated to consistently melt once a certain set of conditions are met. If you look at the cone chart from Orton, you'll see that they give different equivalent temperatures for different firing rates. It's because the heat energy needs time to transfer to the ceramic materials and melt them fully. Just because the air in the kiln is a certain temperature doesn't mean the heat energy has had a chance to permeate evenly all the way through the clay and glazes. Time is important. You use three cones to see where in the rough firing range your work has landed, and how that varies throughout the kiln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdobay Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 I always liken temperature vs cones to baking. You wouldn't put a fruit cake in the oven, switch the oven on and switch it off when it reached the cooking temperature. You wait for it to cook for a certain amount of time. Same with ceramics. The cones prove that the right amount of heat was applied to the pots for the right amount of time - heat-work as stated by Min and Babs. (And thought by lots of others too.... ) No, you don't need to use them, but by using them you can be sure that you have repeated (as best as you can) what you did last time. fairly new to pottery as well, but is that statement about cones and heat work true??? I only question because cones ( to my understanding ) will start to melt at the right temp but not melt fully if the temp stays even regardless of the time its held at that temp.. So my understanding of cones was to ensure the kiln was getting to temp but not over, hence the use of 3cones 1 below your target ,1 at target and 1 above target temp.. Again I could be totally wrong???Cones don't measure temperature at all. They measure heat work. They're formulated to consistently melt once a certain set of conditions are met. If you look at the cone chart from Orton, you'll see that they give different equivalent temperatures for different firing rates. It's because the heat energy needs time to transfer to the ceramic materials and melt them fully. Just because the air in the kiln is a certain temperature doesn't mean the heat energy has had a chance to permeate evenly all the way through the clay and glazes. Time is important. You use three cones to see where in the rough firing range your work has landed, and how that varies throughout the kiln. Makes sense! Thank you for clarification and education. Although have been potting for a little while, I have yet to run or setup my own kiln so I am still a little ignorant to all the nuances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girts Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 An excellent analogy. Thanks Chilly. Now the principle behind cones make sense to me. Girts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholliday Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 In UK we don't do this 'cone' temp thing. We just do it in degrees Celcius. Sorry to disappoint you, but we do use cones in the UK. Well what's the point? We are taught in the pottery to use degrees Celcius. Which fits in with the rest of the scientific world...makes sense to me. Thermocouples measure temperature only. Cones measure the heat work done in the kiln. Temperature plus time. So that's degrees Celcius plus a clock? Cones.... pah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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