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L&l Easy18-3 E-2 Error


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So I went out to see the temp on my kiln this morning after last nights firing and the panel had E-2 on it. 

 

I looked up E-2 on hotkilns.com (http://hotkilns.com/how-fix-e-2-or-err2)

 

It says it can only happen on a down ramp or in a hold.

 

I haven't been able to open the kiln yet (still cooling), but it appears the error happened in the last phases of my cooling schedule I guess, cause the temp when I hit enter said 1792F, and the time was over 9 hours 20 something minutes. My normal schedule takes about 9 hours 50 minutes. 

 

My kiln is set to hold at 1742F and according to this L&L page(http://www.hotkilns.com/error-codes) for E-2:

 

Kiln temperature 50°F above hold temperature (18 seconds).  If this a cooling segment, try using a cooling rate of 400°F or 500°F rather than one that is faster.  Loose and overheated TC connections/ wires or old thermocouples can cause this too. Sometimes happens on an empty kiln during a first test firing.

 

It was 50F over my hold schedule. My cooling rate to 1742F was 9999, because I thought that meant it can cool naturally as fast as it wants. I have ran this schedule before many times and never had this error. One of the causes listed on L&L was uneven loading of the kiln. This kiln was loaded pretty uneven. I didn't have anything on the top portion of the kiln and the bottom and middle was loaded. I was glazing and planning on loading the whole thing. I was loading and glazing as I went and it got dark and dinner was done so I just filled it half way. Maybe this was the problem? The top TC had nothing on that level.

 

 

  1. Err2 usually happens on a down-ramp, often because of how the kiln cools naturally with the load placed as it is in the kiln- one of the TC readings is not cooling off as fast as the others, and when the coolest TC reaches the set point, Err2 can happen.

 

Should I just fire again and see if it E-2's again or should I do the entire inspection that L&L has listed on that page above.

 

My kiln has 145 firings on the elements, rougly half of those are bisque, so I assume my elements had nothing to do with this as the error pages don't mention them. 

 

Thoughts?

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145 is a lot of firings, even if half of them were bisque. You should consider that new elements are in your near future.

 

But I think the main issue here was the unbalanced load.

 

Yes, you should do the check list from the L&L page anyways. If everything checks out, run your next firing with a balanced load, and see what happens.

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145 is a lot of firings, even if half of them were bisque. You should consider that new elements are in your near future.

 

But I think the main issue here was the unbalanced load.

 

Yes, you should do the check list from the L&L page anyways. If everything checks out, run your next firing with a balanced load, and see what happens.

 

I definitely know my elements are nearing their end. Visually they are slumping in the holders. My firing times have been steady, but I was thinking about replacing them soon. 

 

Thanks for the advice. I will look over it and figure out where to start.

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With the top section wide open you could easily have an imbalance situation. What probably happened was that by using a cooling rate of 9999 it cooled very unevenly, causing the error code. If you put in a an actual rate that's close to natural cooling speed so that it can cycle the elements and keep the kiln even, then you won't get the error code.

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Thanks Neil

 

L&L just emailed the same thing a few hours ago. They said to put in a slow cool of like 300-400, and fire it with an even load. I should have done this, I just didn't even think about the 9999 exaggerating the difference between the top and bottom TCs cooling rate. I had planned for more pots to go on top but didn't get around to glazing them. I won't ever do this again as it scared my pants off seeing E-2 when I went out there this morning. 

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Don't replace the elements til they tell you they don't want to do it for you! It's nnot cheap and if you are still getting satisfactory firings, don't put out the cost til you have to. Just saying, old miser here.

 

I looked into them today. Going to cost me around $200+ to replace my elements. So I will indeed run them till the end. Didn't realize they were $50 a pop. I still think I can get a good while out of them unless one snaps or something, cause right now I have suffered no increase in firing times at all.

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If you fire your elements till they are dead, you're going to have more down time as you wait for the elements to arrive, and waste a lot of electricity($$$) too. Learn how to check the resistance with a meter. Once they're 10% off from normal they should be replaced. Also, I have twice seen elements stick to the element holders when they were fired way past their functional life. It's real pain to get them out when that happens. Took me about an hour to get them all out, 1 inch of wire at a time.

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Will my firing times not start to drastically increase when they are going bad? I figured once they started increasing by 20-30 minutes it would be time to replace them. I will look into resistance checking with a meter.

 

With manual kilns you will start to notice the increased firing time much sooner, because on each setting (low, med, high) there is less heat than with fresh elements, so each segment of the firing will be slower, resulting in a longer firing. With digital kilns, the elements are either on or off. The controller will keep them on longer to get the heat needed at the lower temperatures, so it can compensate for bad elements until it gets to the point that the elements need to be on most of the time to get the heat needed. Only then will the total firing time be increased. You're really only slowing down at the high end of the firing, but wasting a lot of electricity prior to that keeping up with the program. If the coils are starting to lay over, that's the best visual sign that they are near the end of their life.

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Will my firing times not start to drastically increase when they are going bad? I figured once they started increasing by 20-30 minutes it would be time to replace them. I will look into resistance checking with a meter.

 

With manual kilns you will start to notice the increased firing time much sooner, because on each setting (low, med, high) there is less heat than with fresh elements, so each segment of the firing will be slower, resulting in a longer firing. With digital kilns, the elements are either on or off. The controller will keep them on longer to get the heat needed at the lower temperatures, so it can compensate for bad elements until it gets to the point that the elements need to be on most of the time to get the heat needed. Only then will the total firing time be increased. You're really only slowing down at the high end of the firing, but wasting a lot of electricity prior to that keeping up with the program. If the coils are starting to lay over, that's the best visual sign that they are near the end of their life.

 

Thanks Neil, I fired a manual till recently and replaced when firings lengthened. and did not think of the controller doing what it has to do to get what it wants ie elements on for a longer duration to maintain the rising temp programmed.

Thanks for this.

Having said that, I usually manage to stuff the element up by a glaze goob or something before the element actually lays over and dies.

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I guess I will order some more next week then, cause mine are starting to lay over in some places a lot. Thanks for the great advice from everyone. 

 

Put a  meter on them. Your manual should show what the factory resistance is. I've seen some ugly elements that were still functional. If you can get 10 more firings out of them, do it.

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I guess I will order some more next week then, cause mine are starting to lay over in some places a lot. Thanks for the great advice from everyone. 

 

Put a  meter on them. Your manual should show what the factory resistance is. I've seen some ugly elements that were still functional. If you can get 10 more firings out of them, do it.

 

 

Neil is this what your speaking of doing?

 

http://hotkilns.com/checking-element-ohms

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Thanks! I have a multimeter, I bought one to test that used paragon I bought that I ended up selling to a glass artist because it wouldn't hit cone 6, but they only needed it to go to 1700F or thats what they said.

 

So I will check this tomorrow. I think they are near the end though because like I said they are starting to slump a decent amount in certain spots. If I can fire them a few more times that would be fantastic as I will order some replacements next week.

 

Appreciate the help.

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So I checked my elements and they were at Elements 1/2: 21.6, Elements 3/4: 21.6

 

Which is 9.5% difference from standard. I guess I should fire them a few more times? I am ordering replacements on Monday anyways for when they are over 10% which will be soon I presume. 

 

Also when I do replace the elements do I need to do a breakin firing to cone 6 again like I did when I first got the kiln? I looked through L&L's replacement section but they didn't say anything about that.

 

Thanks for all the awesome help. Learning so much. 

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Will my firing times not start to drastically increase when they are going bad? I figured once they started increasing by 20-30 minutes it would be time to replace them. I will look into resistance checking with a meter.

 

With manual kilns you will start to notice the increased firing time much sooner, because on each setting (low, med, high) there is less heat than with fresh elements, so each segment of the firing will be slower, resulting in a longer firing. With digital kilns, the elements are either on or off. The controller will keep them on longer to get the heat needed at the lower temperatures, so it can compensate for bad elements until it gets to the point that the elements need to be on most of the time to get the heat needed. Only then will the total firing time be increased. You're really only slowing down at the high end of the firing, but wasting a lot of electricity prior to that keeping up with the program. If the coils are starting to lay over, that's the best visual sign that they are near the end of their life.

 

Hey Neil

I have a manual kiln that I wired to a manual fire right controller-the switches are always set on high-I only fire to o6

The fire right advances the on time on a dial that you set

so I;m assuming they have the similar life as a digital controller or is that not the case?

 

Sorry for horning in on you question above Joseph.

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So I checked my elements and they were at Elements 1/2: 21.6, Elements 3/4: 21.6

 

Which is 9.5% difference from standard. I guess I should fire them a few more times? I am ordering replacements on Monday anyways for when they are over 10% which will be soon I presume. 

 

Also when I do replace the elements do I need to do a breakin firing to cone 6 again like I did when I first got the kiln? I looked through L&L's replacement section but they didn't say anything about that.

 

Thanks for all the awesome help. Learning so much.

 

Yes, when you replace the elements, you will do a first firing with an empty kiln. The elements will come with instructions that will make that clear. The one part about L&L element replacement instructions that isn't clear is "stretch the elements if you need to" but they don't tell you HOW to stretch elements. If you want help with that, just ask the forum.

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Start with a long table. Make sure you wipe the surface clean . . . you don't want to pick up dirt/traces of glaze, raw materials, etc. from your pottery table top on the new elements. I watched one person go so far as to wipe the table top with alcohol wipes.

 

Clamp the end of the new element at one end of the table; then remove one old element, place it side-by-side with the new. Gently stretch the new element to nearly match the size of the old. The old element may have relaxed some and be larger than actually needed. Multiple gentle stretches that stretch the new element are better than one giant tug that leaves you with a new element larger than needed or able to fit in the kiln -- once stretched, the elements cannot be reversed. Aim for the new element to be a bit smaller -- you can make up the difference in the kiln and with the pigtails. Repeat for each element being replaced.

 

Once stretched, carefully move the element to the kiln -- avoid letting it touch the floor where it can pick up dirt, etc. The element will have a coating on to protect it and dust/dirt/etc will stick to the coating.

 

Use clean gloves when handling the elements . . . don't transfer you skin oils to the coils.

 

Four hands work better than two. Especially if you have not done this before.

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