GEP Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 I might be interpreting these instructions wrong, but to me this paragraph means ... "NOTE: Most replacement elements come prestretched All elements are slightly understretched and will have to be adjusted for final fit The following are instruc- tions for how to stretch unstretched elements:" ... that the instructions that follow do not apply to "pre-stretched" elements which is what we all get today. This is the part that is important: "Initially stretch element about 50% of length of its final fully stretched length Examine for evenness of stretch " The "pre-stretched" elements we get these days are maybe 95% of its final correct length. So these instructions are outdated and are referring to elements that are not "pre-stretched." They should be updated to explain how to get those last 3 or 4 inches that pre-stretched elements sometimes need, without overstretching them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 The first time I had to stretch new elements, I could not get them to change lengths. They are stubborn when they're new. So I asked L&L and the advice they gave me was "give it a few hard yanks." This is unquantifiable advice, and I overstretched the first one. Here's my way of doing it safely: I do this on my dining room/living room floor, because this floor in my studio is way too dirty, and I don't have a table big enough. Clamp one end to the dining room table leg. Put a tape measure next to the element, opened out to ten feet. (This is for a 23 inch kiln. This length will be different for different diameter kilns.) Grab the loose end of the element, and walk backwards slowly until the element reaches ten feet. Count to five slowly. Walk forward again until you can put the element down. Every time I do this it stretches about one inch. Repeat until it reaches the correct length. It doesn't take much time or effort, and there's no danger or overdoing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 I also over stretched my first one because as you say they don't move, so you give it that bit too much, then it's too long Luckily it was only an inch or so that could still fit into the kiln. Once you do one you easily find what over stretch lets you sneak up on the right length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I was out on vacation for the last week. Sorry I missed your questions. L&L elements come slightly short, but they are springy, so they can be hooked into the corners of the element holders. This generally works, but sometimes they won't stay in place and you have to stretch the element so they just lay in the holders without any tension. Ideally, you want to stretch the entire element so that the coil spacing stays consistent. To do that you need to clamp one end to a table and pull from the other end. That's a total pain in the behind, though, and the risk of stretching to far is too great, so I usually just grab the element with my hands far apart and stretch the biggest section I can. You only need to pull until you just feel it start to give. There's a point at which it stops stretching like a spring and starts bending the wire and spreading the coils. You can feel the difference. You will usually only need to stretch a few inches, so take it easy. If you go too far you'll have to crimp the coils back together one at a time with needle nose pliers to shorten it back up. I'll often stretch two or three places, evenly around the element. If it's not totally perfect it won't matter. Don't worry about touching the elements with your hands. They're covered with oil that burns off when you start the kiln anyway. Do an empty firing with new elements to build a layer of oxidation on them that will protect them during firings. Most kiln companies recommend a bisque temp firing, but someone here once said they read that the element wire manufacturer recommends firing higher. If you've got the time and money, fire empty to cone 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Thanks everyone for the help and tips. I am ordering my elements this week. I will make sure I do all these things when they come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted March 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Welp! Elements replaced. I didn't have to stretch mine. They were actually a little big. I had to bend them at a slight angle at each hexagon corner so that they would sit in the element holders. Nothing major just a slight bend, after that they fit perfect. They were about 2 inches to big. I figure after I fire them a few times they will sit better in the element holders. The hardest part about all of this was I had to go to home depot and buy some nice wire cutters. The ones I had couldn't even come close to cutting through those element pigtails. Once I got some Klein heavy duty leverage clippers it was much easier. All in all it took me about 2 hours. I figure next time it will be much faster as I had to keep looking back at my pictures I took with my phone to make sure I did everything 100% same as the original. After I got it all hooked up, I checked the OHMs with my meter. 19.5 on each element loop. I have a question here as the element ohms on the link that I provided on page one said they should be at 20.8. Should I be concerned? Both the bottom and top were exactly 19.5. I would call L&L about this but they don't open until tomorrow. I am not going to fire them until I know that it is fine. I can't think of anything I could have done differently to get the 1.3 of difference, and the fact that the bottom and the top are the same makes me feel like it should be fine, but... never know. Thoughts? I am happy I have an L&L, I couldn't imagine anything easier than putting elements in an element holder like that. Taking them out took about 1 minute once I got all the wires unattached and clipped at the terminals. Thanks everyone for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I would call L&L tomorrow. The elements should not be long. If anything they should be short, so they can e stretched into the corners. In 11 years of L&L service I have never seen elements too long. Combined with the ohms being off by 1.3, there could be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted March 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 There very well could be. When I placed the order, the person didn't seem very confident, but I just tossed it up to him being busy or something. Then I didn't get an email confirming my order. So I called back the following day and my suspicions were confirmed that they indeed were new. Also I told the person on the phone I wanted new terminal screws and he only charged me for 4 and sent 4 instead of 6. I of course didn't know this until today when I opened the box to install the elements. I only had a problem with 2 of the terminal screws, so I just let it go and saved the other 2 for extra parts and planned on ordering 4 next time. It looks like I might have just wasted a lot of time. Sounds like I am going to have some discussions tomorrow morning. Yawn... Arg.. I should have known better when they were too long, and I shouldn't have even installed them. Dag nabbit. I hope they seriously don't want to charge me for another set since I already cut these to fit. *not happy* Thanks for the info Neil. Glad I waited to not fire them. Not mad at L&L. Great company. Just a little upset I didn't think more before I installed long elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I hope they work for you without having to replace them. I have received elements that are too long before, just not from L&L. I got a floor element from Bailey last year that was almost a foot too long, and they refused to replace it, saying they don't make the correct one any more since it was an older kiln. They may be fine, and the difference in resistance may not be enough to matter. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I hope so too. Fingers crossed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I looked on my order sheet that I got in the mail after ordering my elements. They state the following: 4 - E18s 1/3 PH 240V Large Element 9.7 OHMS. (which is 19.4 on a set, this is .1 off from where I am so, happy about that if this is correct.) What is really odd is it says 4 Element Terminal Set . Which should be 6, but that's an easy mistake I guess. So either the website has the wrong OHM's listed for my model, and my previous elements were very far outside of 10%, they have changed them since then, or someone in shipping sent the wrong ones. I still don't get how they were longer though. I mean when I put them in the element holders and they went all the way around I had 1-2 inches hanging out of the element holder that I had to go back and push in, and to make them fit I had to bend them very slightly at the bends of the hexagon. Here is a picture that kinda shows how crammed they are in there. If you look at that top element you can sorta see why I am slightly worried. I hope that element doesn't pop out, or maybe after the first firing I can get them to fit better. I will still call them in the morning to figure this all out. I thought it was very odd as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 L&L said good to go. They are not sure why the OHMs on the website is 20.8 or what ever, but the tech I talked to said as long as they are double what the ohms per element that came for that kiln are it should be fine. Which they are at 19.5(.1 off, but is probably just my meter being off). L&L pre-stretched them slightly too long is what it sounds like. Either way, no worries, as they are in there now and reading correctly. Going to do the firing tomorrow. So yay! Thanks for all the help and finger crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Where on the web site did you find the ohms? The element ordering page doesn't show ohms. Check the wiring diagram in your manual to be sure next time. He were probably thinking 4 elements, so 4 terminal sets, no realizing you need 3 per terminal block. Glad it all worked out. If the elements are sitting nicely in the holders they should stay.You can always sneak a pin in between the holder to keep them in if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 On the hotkilns.com/checking-element-ohms it shows the set ohms for easy 18s as 20.8. On my receipt it shows them individual as 9.7 which is 19.4 in a set or wired together or what ever that is called when you check the ohms at 1 and 2 point and 3 and 4 point. I think the elements will be OK. I have them in there pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Joseph I feel for you , my new kiln came with loopy elements. Elements will sag if unsupported at all as you know and is tedious to heat to put them back in place. I'd follow Neil's suggestion and tap in a few pins to hold the offending parts in place prior to firing, can't remember the correct name for the pins. If the elements settle fine then you can remove the pins. From the photo they don't seem to be extending out of their rack area, it would only be if they are bulging out of their grooves that I'd pin. Hope you get some long life from your newbies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Welp. Break in firing complete. Everything went wonderful. The firing completed on schedule, no errors, the elements are nicely rested in their holders. Beautiful stuff. Thanks everyone for all their help. Back to work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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