Min Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 I had the following pdf posted yesterday then I pulled it down for a couple reasons, firstly because I thought it might be taken as a bit over the top in regards to this conversation and secondly because the people who make inappropriate comments / pm's likely wouldn’t read it. Change of mind, people who are victims of cyber bullying here, or elsewhere, might get something from it so i’m reposting. http://www.samblackman.org/Articles/Suler.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'm still here. I asked a few questions, but haven't posted in a long time. I can't say much for others, but I still lurk around here a lot. I'm a student, so often most of my work is assignment-based and not my own. I also just feel embarrassed so I barely ever photograph my work... I guess I also feel a bit uncomfortable shoving myself in conversations where the rest of the people know each other well--almost like I feel as if I'm encroaching on someone else's space? It's a side-effect of a very good pro, however, of having a cozy, supportive environment of a small number of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'm still here. I asked a few questions, but haven't posted in a long time. I can't say much for others, but I still lurk around here a lot. I'm a student, so often most of my work is assignment-based and not my own. I also just feel embarrassed so I barely ever photograph my work... I guess I also feel a bit uncomfortable shoving myself in conversations where the rest of the people know each other well--almost like I feel as if I'm encroaching on someone else's space? It's a side-effect of a very good pro, however, of having a cozy, supportive environment of a small number of people. Well just take the leap and join in. The posters only "know" each other by joining in...the "converstions are open. Your comments would be really welcomed.. As a person who has not been a student at tertiary inst. I would find your ideas fresh and your experience in ceramics something I would like to share. Many who post regularly are just setting out in the ceramics field and are sharing what their experience is. Do add to the converstions that's what makes this forum great, its diversity. Please keep reading and just throw in a thought or 2. Babas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Dean Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 I am so glad that we have CAD. I used to subscribe to Clayart. Just couldn't take it anymore, between the sacred cows, holier than thous and all the drivel sprinkled between a few nuggets of useful information. Never felt comfortable posting anything there - the slightest thing could erupt in flame wars. I hope we can maintain our culture of being welcoming and helpful. -SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docweathers Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I am certainly guilty of not reporting back on results of the advice that I've gotten. I never really thought about anyone giving a hoot since the advisor usually seemed quite knowledgeable and already knew what would happen. I didn't see any point in telling them what they already knew. I will have to amend my ways. I try to contribute to the forum by describing some technique or gizmo that I have just dawned upon that I think others might find useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdptrKrmk Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hi ! My first post on this forum was to ask for some advice (suitability of paper-clay porcelain as a basis for engobe). I'm not based in the US and I'll freely admit that I enjoy CAD posts and forums much more than those of similar websites/forums in my own country, which I find to be close-minded, self-righteous, judgemental and discouraging. This is also the reason why I'm always extremely reluctant to post any picture of unfinished work, or mistake : I don't want to get flogged, and be made to believe I'm not good enough to even ask a question. Despite the language barrier (and sometimes the cultural one), I asked for help on this forum because I feared asking for it on the forums in my own country ! So kudos to you, CAD community ! This said, three months elapsed between the moment I asked for advice on this forum, decided to give the paper-clay-based engobe a go, and the moment I opened the kiln and could see the post-glazing results for myself (I don't fire very often). I edited my original post to report on the results, but I remember thinking at the time that probably no one would see it, not even the people who took the time to offer their input. This is because there's no possibility (as far as I can see) to tag "question answered" or "case closed", or to have it "pop up" again, for people to notice (bar quoting somebody's answer, and have them noticed per email). Am I missing something ? is there a tool I'm not aware of ? Also, I've noticed that I fall easily "down the rabbit hole" when I start browsing the CAD website and forums. Before I even notice, two hours have come and gone, my brain is bubbling, and I'm losing focus How do you, regular contributors, manage to bring so much input AND keep the studio going ? Cheers Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerdry Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Emma, I use the "view new content" function to go thru the forum. That way, when someone posts on an older topic, I will see it....like when you posted your results. It happens sometimes that I will be reading something and am happy to see someone posting that we haven't heard from in ages, and then I see the date and realize the thread is very old. It's not unusual for threads from 2 or 3 years ago to start up again...which is kind of cool, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted February 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 emma, the best tool on this forum is "edit". you can edit something and it will pick up again as though it is new. i use it if i am interrupted to save something i haven't finished. hit post and immediately hit edit and it is saved on your screen until you pick it up again. doris, i messed up something and "view new content" does not work the way it did. i found that at the last post of each thread, there is "next unread topic". that works for each topic you have not yet read. amazing, it does what it says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 i messed up something and "view new content" does not work the way it did. On the "view new content" page, there is a list of filters on the left side of the page. You might have clicked on one or more filters? Uncheck all of the filters, and the page should show you all of the new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I didn't think editing a post would bump it to the top, adding a new post to the thread will get it up to the top of the sub-forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFaul Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I remember that thread you started, Mike, and honestly, I think "slammed" and "hammered" are a bit strong when describing the responses. Can't speak to the PM's obviously. People sending negative PM's to a poster who is just looking for some help really upsets me. I'm so disappointed that folks on this forum would do that. Anyone who has spent any amount of time reading internet comments knows that this forum is comparatively mild and kind, but even PM is unacceptable in my mind. Anonymity seems to give some people a license to be rude. That's one of the reasons I use my real name. If I'd be ashamed for someone to know I said it, I won't say it. I, too, thought the picture you posted was a bit odd, but figured there was something about this I didn't know. As it turns out, I was right. Maybe you should have included an explanation as to why you were doing what you were doing. I think you just proved my point... If my adjectives are extreme, therefore the incident was not that bad. If my pot really did have a wavy profile, then I deserved unwanted criticism and to have my question ignored. That's not hammering, that's just tough love. This sort of argument is sort of like saying "he deserved to get mugged, because he used the ATM". Really? Second, your conclusions about my pot would've been 110% incorrect. Why, because like everyone else, you would have rushed to judgement using conventional "clay-wisdom'. You would not and did not ask a single clarifying question to develop sufficient understanding before rendering judgement. Had you done this, you would have discovered that the design was based on "market wisdom" not conventional clay-wisdom. Why should I have to include an explanation about the weight of the pot when I was asking about the productivity of production potters? Why should I, as a questioner, have to take a defensive position when asking a question? Why should I have to justify ANY characteristic of ANY aspect of ANY form I choose to make? The only reason I would ever have to do such a thing is to appease a mob. This event didn't upset me, I only mentioned it as a data point. It's not the reason I've been off line for the past year. I've been running my business. I'm back for a short time. This is not the only event. Chris mentions one I am also aware of, that was active last week. And OldLady hinted at others. I've seen others... I don't want this to be a debate about a specific issue. I don't think that was OldLady's intent. My intent was put forth the idea that we affect participation... PERIOD... And, we should not be too quick to dismiss the idea that maybe we scare away new comers... And, we could be a little more pleasant, accepting, kind, and welcoming. I know I could... If you're perfect, well Alleluja! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I keep a pretty close eye on the forum and I cannot remember your posting as being that controversial. I must have missed something ... Or, was the nasty stuff in a PM? I take your comments seriously Mike since I know other 'flamer forums' think they are not so bad either. BUT I just have not seen systemic mean spirit in the public area of the forum. Our moderators are pretty thorough so it's usually quite the opposite. I hope all Members are aware that they can and should report any abuse ... Public or private ... to the moderators I don't know what we can do to stop nasty PMs but one thing that might help with first questions is to change the name of a first time poster from "newbie" to " New Poster" or some such. Then we won't tend to confuse them with someone who is new to clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 As a moderator here, knowing much of the behind the scenes things we do as moderators besides just Spam shooting, I'm really upset hearing that someone had a bad experience here. I know that a lot of effort has been taken over the years by many of us to work behind the scenes to kill a hurtful out of hand thread. To think that we overlooked something bothers me. best, Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFaul Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I keep a pretty close eye on the forum and I cannot remember your posting as being that controversial. I must have missed something ... Or, was the nasty stuff in a PM? I take your comments seriously Mike since I know other 'flamer forums' think they are not so bad either. BUT I just have not seen systemic mean spirit in the public area of the forum. Our moderators are pretty thorough so it's usually quite the opposite. I hope all Members are aware that they can and should report any abuse ... Public or private ... to the moderators I don't know what we can do to stop nasty PMs but one thing that might help with first questions is to change the name of a first time poster from "newbie" to " New Poster" or some such. Then we won't tend to confuse them with someone who is new to clay. OK, I'm not trying to say this is a bad place. I'm not trying to say this is a "flamer forum"... If I gave that impression I'm sorry. My point was sometimes we approach folks from the position that we know better than they do, we criticize them unfairly as oppose to offering a professional critique. We launch into these criticisms without asking clarifying questions that might change the advice we're giving them. And sometimes that makes us wrong, and we turn people off. SOMETIMES... So, sometimes we scare people off. Justsayn... My opinion... Now it's not a question of a mean spirit. It's a question, in my opinion, of a bit of arrogance on the part of some people, not all. It's like you said the other day. Someone posts in the glaze forum. "I'm an expert on this topic, I know topic "A" is dangerous, I'm an expert. I don't need help on topic "A", I know the rules and safety issues related to "A". I have a question on "B". Please don't post on "A", because I know my stuff on "A", but if you would be so kind to answer my question on "B", I would really appreciate it..." And then what follows? A page and half on topic "A" with one post actually saying; I'm not sure we were direct enough with the poster... This is the same thing that happened to me. It's not that anyone is being "mean", they think they are doing the "right thing". But, they think they "know better" than the person who just said they're an expert, and have good reasons for doing it that way. If I remember correctly a moderator did intervene, and return comments were along the line: "Hey some people just don't understand the true nature of their problems." You see... that's the "I know better" attitude, and my entire point is that it becomes exclusionary, it puts people off. And, it turns them away. So, I'm saying we should consider and reflect on the idea that maybe we do affect people more than we realize. That's it. I'm not saying we take them out back and beat the tar out of them, throw them in the kiln and cremate them, then draw and quarter them (sequence maybe out of order). I'm not saying we are cruel. I'm not saying we are bullies. I'm saying our attitude affects others and we should consider that as a factor in why people don't come back. It's not an easy thing to accept, we all want to believe we're good people. We all want to believe we're wonderful people, we do nothing to "scare others off". But, maybe sometimes we do... Maybe we would all do well to consider there are lurkers watching and reading our posts and how we interact with one another... How we critique. How we respond. How we assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdptrKrmk Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I use the "view new content" function to go thru the forum. That way, when someone posts on an older topic, I will see it. I didn't know about that. Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerdry Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Mike, I didn't express my comments about your pot picture very well I'm afraid. I meant you to understand that I didn't form a judgement about the work and I was right, because there was information I didn't have. And no, you don't have to include explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Speaking here as John Baymore... private party... not as formal CAD Moderator........ This issue is why I think forums of all sorts should require REAL NAMES as user names. No "hiding". best, ...................john Anonymity seems to give some people a license to be rude. That's one of the reasons I use my real name. If I'd be ashamed for someone to know I said it, I won't say it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Here again, I don't wear my name on my tag, but anyone that checks finds that Pres is short for Preston, or E. Preston Rice, Art teacher retired, potter, artist, kayaker, bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFaul Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Mike, I didn't express my comments about your pot picture very well I'm afraid. I meant you to understand that I didn't form a judgement about the work and I was right, because there was information I didn't have. And no, you don't have to include explanations. My apologies... I rushed to judgement. Please forgive me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFaul Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Here again, I don't wear my name on my tag, but anyone that checks finds that Pres is short for Preston, or E. Preston Rice, Art teacher retired, potter, artist, kayaker, bowler. Gee... I though Pres was short for President of Ceramic Arts Daily :-) Now I come to find out you're an average schmoe like the rest of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFaul Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Speaking here as John Baymore... private party... not as formal CAD Moderator........ This issue is why I think forums of all sorts should require REAL NAMES as user names. No "hiding". best, ...................john Anonymity seems to give some people a license to be rude. That's one of the reasons I use my real name. If I'd be ashamed for someone to know I said it, I won't say it I could not agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 My name is Tom, but you can call me Nerd. For the record: dishonesty and deception is a disease of the soul: it will come out rather a real or fake name is used. For out of the abundance of the heart- the mouth speaks. Tom... or my hiding name- Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 i am a single, they tell me elderly, woman living alone. i am not "hiding" when i choose not to be known on the wide open internet by my name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Here again, I don't wear my name on my tag, but anyone that checks finds that Pres is short for Preston, or E. Preston Rice, Art teacher retired, potter, artist, kayaker, bowler. Working on creating a new extreme sport Pres, Kayak Bowling?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girts Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Speaking as a total newbie, both to clay and this site, I have to say how impressed I am with the generous attitude I can see here. And the lively nature of this forum. Like a previous post, I'm not USA based so I work in degrees C and will need to translate from cones or deg F. No problem! Great forum, great attitude - look forward to being a part of it. (Oh, and Girts is my real name!) Girts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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