Celia UK Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 So... I've just fired my Nabertherm electric kiln (pre-loved) for the first time, for a bisque firing. I put two cone packs in - one on the bottom shelf, one near the top, with 04, 05, 06 large cones. The program was 100oC per hour to 600oC then 250oC per hour to 1000oC. I don't regularly use cones, but thought it was a good opportunity to see what the new kiln did and how the bisque firing temperature related to the Orton Cones. I've attached a photo of one of the cones packs - there was very little difference in them. Does this look as you'd expect? I'm surprised that there's such a big difference between the 06 - completely down and the 05 which is barely bent. I thought the differences between the three would be more even. Is it telling me that this was a cone 5 1/2 firing or something else? Don't know why the photo has flipped! I edited one and flipped it myself and that one still imported upside down ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 You programmed it for a heat rise of 250oC/hour, but it may not have been able to maintain that rate towards the end of the firing. The fastest rise shown in the usual Orton table is 150oC/hour, and at that rate, cone 06 is attained at 1013oC, while 05 is attained at 1044oC. Thus it is not surprising that cone 06 is down but 05 is just beginning to bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The cone boxes used to have this info on the outside of the box but this no longer is the case where I get my supply from. Think there is an online chart covering this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 It's hard to tell from the photo, but the angle of your cones seems like it's off. From the photo it looks like the cone is set into the pack with it angled toward the end of the pack, which would mean it will try to bend along the spine rather than the flat edge, which is what it looks like it's trying to do, which would explain the odd bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 You put the cones in updide down. Next time follow directions on side of box. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Woodin Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 It looks like the cones are also set into the clay at different depths David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 You put the cones in updide down. Next time follow directions on side of box. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celia UK Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Mark - love it!!! Now why didn't I think of that? Dick/Babs - I know about the firing rates and the chart, but that's not really my issue. I just expected the middle cone to be bent more, relative to the other two. From the responses I've had (thanks everyone who chipped in) I think it was all in the setting up of the pack. Neil - thanks for that, I didn't realise exactly how critical the placing of the cones was. I didn't know they bent on the flat plane, but they were all leaning in the same direction, but at an angle so they wouldn't fall on to each other. Some pictures I looked at show the flat sides pointing towards the end of the pack, others show the edges?? Looking at another of the unused packs I have made up, even though they lean in the same direction I haven't placed them all with the numbers on the same side. I think this could be the issue with the one in question, but as the numbers are now hidden in the clay pack, I can't tell for sure. In your opinion does this pack, nonetheless indicate a firing to 05? And can you confirm? Next time...cones all aligned the same: numbers on same side and leaning at same angle, pushed into clay pack to same depth. But MUST the flat sides point to the end of the pack? If I do this I'll need to space them more widely so they don't fall on to each other - does that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Next time...cones all aligned the same: numbers on same side and leaning at same angle, pushed into clay pack to same depth. But MUST the flat sides point to the end of the pack? If I do this I'll need to space them more widely so they don't fall on to each other - does that matter? I've no experience using cones, but these seem relevant: https://www.baileypottery.com/cones/ortoninfo.htm http://www.walkerceramics.com.au/cones.htm added ... https://www.ortonceramic.com/files/2676/File/Orton-Cone-Chart-C-022-14.pdf eye candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Mark - love it!!! Now why didn't I think of that? Dick/Babs - I know about the firing rates and the chart, but that's not really my issue. I just expected the middle cone to be bent more, relative to the other two. From the responses I've had (thanks everyone who chipped in) I think it was all in the setting up of the pack. Neil - thanks for that, I didn't realise exactly how critical the placing of the cones was. I didn't know they bent on the flat plane, but they were all leaning in the same direction, but at an angle so they wouldn't fall on to each other. Some pictures I looked at show the flat sides pointing towards the end of the pack, others show the edges?? Looking at another of the unused packs I have made up, even though they lean in the same direction I haven't placed them all with the numbers on the same side. I think this could be the issue with the one in question, but as the numbers are now hidden in the clay pack, I can't tell for sure. In your opinion does this pack, nonetheless indicate a firing to 05? And can you confirm? Next time...cones all aligned the same: numbers on same side and leaning at same angle, pushed into clay pack to same depth.YES But MUST the flat sides point to the end of the pack? YES If I do this I'll need to space them more widely so they don't fall on to each other - does that matter?Yes have them fall away from each other a tad not onto one another-I had a photo post about this last year, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 But MUST the flat sides point to the end of the pack? YES Just thinking out loud, as I'm confused. I don't think this answer can be correct for the question as I read it, as Orton sell cone support plaques where this doesn't seem to be case (dot on falling side). On the other hand, if the question is read as something like: - what is the customary position ... - what position provides the best comparability to most other users ... I readily defer to the posters experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I have some where the numbers are not on the same sides. The key is that if you stand them flat on the table and get them all leaning the same way, then put them into the splodge of clay, they must still be leaning the way they do without the clay. They can lean toward you or over each other. Leaning over each other is best if you want to see them through the spy-hole, but they must be in the correct order, so the coolest leans, then the next leans over it, then the hottest. Leaning forward is fine for those you won't be able to see, also, they don't touch each other and have a clear landing space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Woodin Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 So... I've just fired my Nabertherm electric kiln (pre-loved) for the first time, for a bisque firing. I put two cone packs in - one on the bottom shelf, one near the top, with 04, 05, 06 large cones. The program was 100oC per hour to 600oC then 250oC per hour to 1000oC. I don't regularly use cones, but thought it was a good opportunity to see what the new kiln did and how the bisque firing temperature related to the Orton Cones. I've attached a photo of one of the cones packs - there was very little difference in them. Does this look as you'd expect? I'm surprised that there's such a big difference between the 06 - completely down and the 05 which is barely bent. I thought the differences between the three would be more even. Is it telling me that this was a cone 5 1/2 firing or something else? Don't know why the photo has flipped! I edited one and flipped it myself and that one still imported upside down !image.jpg The very best option is self standing cones, but they are about twice the price of regular cones, the next best is to get the cone plaques to set the cones in. You can get very good results by making your own cone plaques. 1. the base of the cone is cut so you will get the needed 8 deg angle. 2. when cones are set to fall to the left then the numbers will show. 3. Height above the clay is 2" for large cones when reading the large cone chart, or 1 3/4' for the self supporting cones chart. There is a 2" mark on the cone, it is the horizontal line of the Orton symbol. The 1 3/4" line is the top of the Orton symbol if you want to read the self supporting chart. 4. Make a clay pad about 5/8" thick by 1" wide by 3" long. 5. Mark a straight line lightly on top of the pad, push a cone in to the clay up to the 2 " or 1 3/4 inch mark, the number will face you at an angle to the line, and the flat surface is on the line. The bending surface is not on the line. Then push in the next cones to the same depth following this line etc. The cones will fall and miss each other if you do this. The previous posts with picture will then make sense. Too bad that Orton changed their style of box and left off or didn't have the room to print the facts you needed to set cones properly. Remember that cones go from 022 to 0, then 1 to 14. This means for a cone 05 firing you use 06, 05, 04 starting from the left of the cone pack. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 david is exactly right. in addition, you might consider making 10 or so cone packs at a time. that way you will have one when you need it and will be more likely to put more than one in a firing so you can tell how different levels work in your kiln. as the clay base dries around the cones they become more sturdy and easier to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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