Briggs Shore Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I'm doing a lot of testing to find the right base glazes for my work. I'd like to find a nice, very smooth smooth gloss and satin that takes mason stains well. I'm looking at the recipes in Taylor & Doody's Glaze book, and the recipes provided by Jeff Campana and Chandra DeBuse look absolutely perfect. I'd like to test them out, but they call for different Frits (3134 and 3124 respectively). I already have 3124, and am wondering if I really need to buy the other. I don't have a local shop that supplies raw glaze chemicals, so ordering and shipping things is always a bit of a time consuming pain. While I know testing on my own clay in my own kiln is the only reliable way to know exactly what my results will be ... I'm wondering if anyone here has any idea what the difference is in these 2 frits in terms of how it will effect the glaze. I think 3134 has more sodium, but I don't know how that effects the glaze. Can anyone enlighten me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 If you post the 2 recipes someone here could likely reformulate them to just use 3124. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I think you could try a straight swap and get away with it. The 3124 has more alumina and silica in compared to 3134 but if it is a gloss the glaze can probably take it in. The satin may need some tweaking. Depends how much of the recipe is frit I think too. From digital fire This borosilicate frit is high in calcium. It melts are very low temperatures and among the most useful of all common frits because of its glaze-like balanced chemistry. This frit has a chemistry somewhat similar to 3134 (the latter adds CaO, Na2O and B2O3 at the expense of all the Al2O3 and some SiO2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgpots Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 3124 has alumina which will make a thicker glaze. The same glaze with 3134 will run more. Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 3124 has more sodium in it. It is good for alkaline glazes like copper turquoise in lower temperatures. Frits are manufactured to combine particular ingredients for particular purposes. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 If you plan on doing a lot of glaze testing, you'll want to have 3110, 3124, 3134 and maybe 3195 in your arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curt Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 There are many, many types of frits. To know which one you really need (if any at all) you should get some glaze software and plug in your whole recipe rather than blindly follow someone else's recipe out of a book. Do you know the oxide breakdown of all the other ingredients in your recipe? The frit is likely the most easy ingredient to nail down. But the rest of the ingredients will need to be assessed as to their oxide contribution before you get to worried about 3124 vs 3134. Put another way, feldspars aint feldspars, nor are they neph sys.... Got to know what's in the tank. Yes, I know, why make something so easy (like someone else's recipe) so hard? Because then you will be baking cakes from scratch (they always taste better) rather than baking out of a box. If you are really doing a lot of testing then it is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 As always, it seems that there is an appropriate thread for any pondering I may have going on. I measured out 4 glazes yesterday. A 5000g batch of clear, and 3 1000g batches of tinted clear. About 4:00 I am starting to sieve said glazes and I am having a heck of a time getting them through the sieve. And by the time I had it pushed through the sieve, there was almost a cottage cheesy consistency to what didn't go through. I running all the scenarios through my head while I am pushing this stuff through, messed up the recipe, mixed up the tubs o chemicals, held my mouth wrong......double checked, triple checked. Finally on the 5000g batch I gave up at 8:00. I just mixed it all together, cleaned up and came back into the house. I woke up at 4 thinking about all this, and ah ha! The last two chemicals I purchased were Wollastonite and ff3134. The Wollastonite was a partial bag but it looks like Wollastonite....... but what if the 3134 was mislabeled? And because all the frits look the same, how would I know? And.....as much as I love my clay guy, there had been a mistake with frits in the past (sold me a bag of something labeled 3182, when I asked for 3124) sooooo how do I check for this?? Would having a different frit make that much difference in the consistency of the glaze?? After reading this, yes, it probably would. Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 As always, it seems that there is an appropriate thread for any pondering I may have going on. I measured out 4 glazes yesterday. A 5000g batch of clear, and 3 1000g batches of tinted clear. About 4:00 I am starting to sieve said glazes and I am having a heck of a time getting them through the sieve. And by the time I had it pushed through the sieve, there was almost a cottage cheesy consistency to what didn't go through. I running all the scenarios through my head while I am pushing this stuff through, messed up the recipe, mixed up the tubs o chemicals, held my mouth wrong......double checked, triple checked. Finally on the 5000g batch I gave up at 8:00. I just mixed it all together, cleaned up and came back into the house. I woke up at 4 thinking about all this, and ah ha! The last two chemicals I purchased were Wollastonite and ff3134. The Wollastonite was a partial bag but it looks like Wollastonite....... but what if the 3134 was mislabeled? And because all the frits look the same, how would I know? And.....as much as I love my clay guy, there had been a mistake with frits in the past (sold me a bag of something labeled 3182, when I asked for 3124) sooooo how do I check for this?? Would having a different frit make that much difference in the consistency of the glaze?? After reading this, yes, it probably would. Roberta I think it is likely to be the wollastonite causing the problem in the sieve. Wollastonite can be gritty and lumpy. If you have an old blender I would take what is left in the sieve plus some of the glaze and whizz it for a few minutes and see if that helps. If not I would add an equal amount more of wollastonite to what isn't going through the sieve and sieve that. Since frits are ground I don't think it would be from that. I've never heard of 3182? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 is there zinc in the recipe? got a bag of zinc once that was granular, not powder. what a job mixing a glaze! finally did what Min suggests, sort of, and put the dry zinc into a blender then used the resulting powder in the recipe. check that your ingredients are all powder and not like grains of sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Min and Old Lady! Thank you. Yes, it is VERY Gritty!! I thought that was odd also. After I posted I went back out to the shop and tried to resieve again. It was somewhat easier than last night, but still much more of a chore than normal. I will try the blender. No, Old Lady, no zinc. Here's the recipe.....I have used it for years. I think it is out of Mastering Cone 6. G200hp 20 FF3134 20 Wollastonite 15 EPK 20 Talc 6 Silica 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 And I apologize for highjacking the thread. My brain was thinking it was a frit problem. r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 As always, it seems that there is an appropriate thread for any pondering I may have going on. I measured out 4 glazes yesterday. A 5000g batch of clear, and 3 1000g batches of tinted clear. About 4:00 I am starting to sieve said glazes and I am having a heck of a time getting them through the sieve. And by the time I had it pushed through the sieve, there was almost a cottage cheesy consistency to what didn't go through. I running all the scenarios through my head while I am pushing this stuff through, messed up the recipe, mixed up the tubs o chemicals, held my mouth wrong......double checked, triple checked. Finally on the 5000g batch I gave up at 8:00. I just mixed it all together, cleaned up and came back into the house. I woke up at 4 thinking about all this, and ah ha! The last two chemicals I purchased were Wollastonite and ff3134. The Wollastonite was a partial bag but it looks like Wollastonite....... but what if the 3134 was mislabeled? And because all the frits look the same, how would I know? And.....as much as I love my clay guy, there had been a mistake with frits in the past (sold me a bag of something labeled 3182, when I asked for 3124) sooooo how do I check for this?? Would having a different frit make that much difference in the consistency of the glaze?? After reading this, yes, it probably would. Roberta I think it is likely to be the wollastonite causing the problem in the sieve. Wollastonite can be gritty and lumpy. If you have an old blender I would take what is left in the sieve plus some of the glaze and whizz it for a few minutes and see if that helps. If not I would add an equal amount more of wollastonite to what isn't going through the sieve and sieve that. Since frits are ground I don't think it would be from that. I've never heard of 3182? Yes, it apparently is the Wollastonite. I looked at the tub o wollastonite and you can see an obvious line between old and new. When you dig down to the old stuff, it is more fine and powdery than the new. Thanks for your help. I was ready to pitch all of it and start over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 It helps to slake wollastonite in hot water for a bit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 It helps to slake wollastonite in hot water for a bit too. Thanks Callie...I have not run into this before. Now I know. r. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs Shore Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Woah. This thread blew up while I was gone. Just checking in to say thanks for the info. I'll come back and be part of the conversation when not on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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