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Liability Shift On Cc Coming Oct 1, 2015


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This roll out date for euro chipped cards is already set back-never had a FAKE card only bad cards(no money in bank)

All card readers in USA will make this shift in next few years-I now have a chipped card as well as the magnetic stripe-its what I call a combo card. These will transition this change over.Its always been the merchant who eats it as to liability on bad cards.

Mark

Mark

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Guest JBaymore

nope, never had a fake card. i tried ordering one but not available in Canada yet.

 

Fake cards can be purchased on the Dark Net. ;)

 

best,

 

................john

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nope, never had a fake card. i tried ordering one but not available in Canada yet.

 

Fake cards can be purchased on the Dark Net. ;)

 

best,

 

................john

 

 

boy, my syntax really sucked on that one didn't it!

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I once took a card that was apparently stolen many years ago. This was back in the day of knucklebusters. I had to provide everything I knew about it to my credit card processor, but I did not have to forfeit the money. The credit card processors absorbed these losses. My understanding is that we merchants will become liable this fall, for any fraudulent transaction that was not read from a chip. My current processor (Intuit Gopayment) says that they will have chip readers for us in late-September or early-October. Looks like Square is still "working on it" too. I hope the new devices will be ready on time.

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In America most venders and stores don't even have the technology to even use a card chip. I was doing some web development for a company in Canada building an ecommerce site and I was baffled by all the hoops I had to go through for their store fronts credit card process. I later realized that they didn't use strips and all the technology I was familiar with was obsolete up there. I declined the job based on not knowing enough and being able to find a solution I was comfortable with. 

 

I have one card that has a chip(and a strip), all my bank cards and my wifes cards still use the old strip technology. What is even more interesting is that the only vendor I have used my card at that actually used the chip was the Walmart self checkout, which I try to not use because it reduces the young labor market drastically.

 

It is rather interesting that they are finally pushing these chips. They act like they are trying to protect us, but in reality they are probably tired of eating all the fraudulent charges that happen constantly in America. We are very aware of our spending habits and storing credit cards on websites etc, and we usually have some fraudulent charges every year. I dunno if we just get strip copied at gas stations or what, but it happens.

 

From an economic point of view, the fact we have waited so long as a country to push out these standards, just shows how much money that CC providers and banks can make to just magically refund all the fraudulent charges they have to deal with. I don't know the hard numbers on it, but I would say most providers just eat the cost as the chances of finding the criminal are so low that spending resources to catch them is more expensive and unrewarding(meaning they don't get money back). This policy further increases the chances of fraud charges happening, and I guess it has reached the point where they no longer can maintain the refund policies and they have decided to advance/invest in technology.

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Years ago when I did many many festivals every year I would get the occasional Bad card. basically a bad card where the person knew there was no way for me to check at the festival if they had money or not. This was pre cell phone for you younger people and I used an old knuckle buster the size of a Buick to swipe cards using receipts with the rip out blue inked transfer paper. Remember those? Yuck! Well I would take cards, imprint the receipts then run them when I got home though my terminal. I got a few bad cards and I don't know about you but I ate the cost not the credit card company. I would report it and they would say oh so sad and that was that nobody ever reimbursed me for this. I even a had few people protest a sale, basically they forgot they spent something or didn't recognise the charge on their account. The first thing the credit card company does is yank that money back out of your account until you can prove the person bought something from you. This meant going through the receipts copying the one in question mailing it to the company, where they I guess compared signatures or something then wait a month or 2 for them to give you YOUR money back.

 

I adore my paypal card reader I can swipe and know there is money there to cover the charge and can even log in onsite and verify that all the funds are in my account. I have never had a fraudulent sale using the PayPal swiper. As for stolen cards, when at a festival it's always a good idea to ask for ID and compare the name on card and ID.

 

 

I am waiting for PayPal to get the new readers ready and will get one when they tell me they are available.

 

T

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I process credit cards through PNC, and they said they will get me a new chip card enabled mobile reader by October 1, no charge. As for the USB card swiper I use in my shop which goes to the online merchant services portal, if they don't come out with a chip card version, I may be forced to buy an expensive card reader machine, or simply run everything through the mobile. Still trying to figure out how keyed-in phone sales will work with all this.

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While the new Square readers might be good for the cc companies I can foresee they might be a problem with some users confidence in the system. I’m not sure I would want to enter my pin on someones cell phone or tablet no matter what assurances I was given that the system is secure. I think that until they become mainstream and people gain confidence in their security systems some will be reluctant to use them. 


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My bank said that keyed-in sales/phone sales/internet sales will still be handled the same way, with the merchant services provider accepting the responsibility. Only in-person chip card swipes will be affected. So basically this whole responsibility shift is just a way to force the new card readers into use, since there's still plenty of ways to use a stolen card.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest JBaymore

 

I’m not sure I would want to enter my pin on someones cell phone or tablet no matter what assurances I was given that the system is secure.

 

 

A 4 digit numeric PIN is crackable by a software routine in a second or two.  There are only so many combinations that 4 numbers can take.  A computer can run those quickly.  An algorithm to try them all is very easy to write.  Four digit PINs in general are a CRAZY idea for the "security" of anything.  I NEVER use debit cards or ATMs for this reason.  I run antivirus/security software on my cell phone.  I never use "banking" apps on the cell phone.  I never do anything that might be considered sensitive on "public" WiFi networks. ( I don't run ANY apps on Facebook.)

 

Companies that allow employees to use personal cell phones for business typically set them up via their IT departments with encryption.

 

 best,

 

................john

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Guest JBaymore

.............. which I try to not use because it reduces the young labor market drastically.

 

I also try to not use self-checkouts anywhere for the same exact reason.

 

best,

 

.................john

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I've always had credit cards (I guess debit actually) with 4-digit pins as I am from Europe and I think it's a good thing it's coming to the States as well. Just having to sign a piece of paper is in no way secure to me and I never feel comfortable using my card in the States: anyone can copy your signature but it's a bit harder to guess your Pin Code. I've had a few Americans customers coming to the store I was working on in Canada, and complaining about how complicated it was to use a credit card in Canada (yes they have pin-codes as well) but I think this lazyness is totally unsecure. So I'm glad to hear they are putting more security onto these cards

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The difference is that the chip in the card makes is harder to use stolen information than a magnetic stripe:

 

Unlike magnetic-stripe cards, every time an EMV card is used for payment, the card chip creates a unique transaction code that cannot be used again.

If a hacker stole the chip information from one specific point of sale, typical card duplication would never work because the stolen transaction number created in that instance wouldn't be usable again and the card would just get denied.

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So far I've only been able to use my chip card at one retailer: Target. I do not need to enter a PIN at Target. I just insert my card into the chip reader, then remove it when the reader tells me to. So I'm not sure that PINs are going to be required.

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Guest JBaymore

Ditto on the one time I got to use my chip-enabled card (so far).  Card has mag. strip and chip both at the moment.

 

As of right now......... I don't see many chip-enabled retailers around here even amongst the "big" places.

 

best,

 

....................john

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I still think that getting a customer to enter their 4 digit pin on a card reader attached to a phone or tablet is going to raise some eyebrows. Perhaps there is a certain amount of naivety with the current system of card readers like Square, customer just swipes and signs. Asking them to enter their PIN is also asking for a far greater level of trust. We have had years of hearing "protect your PIN" so I think people are careful about where they use them.


 


When chip cards first came out in Canada the common problem was people forgetting their PIN, especially if they have more than one credit card plus debit cards. Enter it wrong 3 times and you are locked out of your account until you phone in and verify your identity and reset it.


 


We had one of our (chip) cards hacked last month. 1500 of purchases we didn’t make appeared on our statement. When we called the cc company they said that hackers just run numbers through until they hit on one that works. New cards sent out and one of them had a screwy chip that didn’t work so had another one sent out. They didn’t need our PIN as the cards will work with just the info on the magnetic strip also. For phone or online purchases you use them just as you would use the older cards with no chip.


 


There are tap and go cards here also, for purchases under 100 you just tap your card to the terminal and you are done, no PIN, no signature. 


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Weird, we don't have anything like that in the UK. No way to take a payment without entering your pin, unless you swipe it or have the new wireless cards. Even then I tried to swipe my card a few days ago as the chip doesn't read too well and it wasn't an option on my card.

 

Sounds like your chips are a fancy magnetic swipe.

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My recently acquired replacement debit card has a wireless logo and I've just started using it. Just tap and go, contactless payment on sales of up to £30. It feels weird, but like most things if I do it often enough i'll soon get used to it. I think the powers that be have kept the amount low til they see how it compares re security.

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U.S. credit cards and debit cards have poor security records -- mostly due to the issuing banks.  That is why hackers go after U.S. credit card and debit card accounts and not those in Europe and other places where the cards use better security -- like pins and encrypted chips.  Yes, pins can be defeated, but most issuers lock out a card long before a hacker has run all the possible number combinations.  For years, U.S. banks have resisted upgrading as the cost to upgrading the points of sale terminals and readers was more than the cost of writing off the losses -- they really don't care about the identify theft aspect of the holder, they only care about their business bottom line.  The response we are seeing now is more likely banks reacting to folks like Apple who are introducing new payment technologies that threaten their business. 

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Weird, we don't have anything like that in the UK. No way to take a payment without entering your pin, unless you swipe it or have the new wireless cards. Even then I tried to swipe my card a few days ago as the chip doesn't read too well and it wasn't an option on my card.

 

Sounds like your chips are a fancy magnetic swipe.

Joel you're showing your youth.  All our UK cards were once the same as this thread.  I remember when we first used PINs here and  went to France in 1996, we just used the cards with no signature, no PIN, no security at all.  Not really much we can help you guys with, PINs have been used here "for so long" it's just normal.  Having said that the only device I've used to enter my PIN has been a card reader in a shop.  Not sure how I'd feel entering my PIN into someone's phone.......

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Weird, we don't have anything like that in the UK. No way to take a payment without entering your pin, unless you swipe it or have the new wireless cards. Even then I tried to swipe my card a few days ago as the chip doesn't read too well and it wasn't an option on my card.

 

Sounds like your chips are a fancy magnetic swipe.

Joel you're showing your youth.  All our UK cards were once the same as this thread.  I remember when we first used PINs here and  went to France in 1996, we just used the cards with no signature, no PIN, no security at all.  Not really much we can help you guys with, PINs have been used here "for so long" it's just normal.  Having said that the only device I've used to enter my PIN has been a card reader in a shop.  Not sure how I'd feel entering my PIN into someone's phone.......

 

 

I remember being on holidays with the parents and always a slight worry about then taking carbon copies and security around that. I was only 6 in 1996 so had a long way to go before I ever owned a bank card  :)

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