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I just got this little inexpensive handmade figurine from a hole-in-the-wall shop in Chinatown, NYC. The shop was Bok Lei Po trading, "The complete martial arts store."..an odd place to find clay work!  The owner had just a few of these items stuck away next to swords and such, stock leftover from the previous store when he bought it. He said handmade clay figures are on the way out, as a U.S. import...if they are made at all anymore, they will be plastic.  Made me sad...most of the other shops on Mott were already "plasticized" to death, selling the same crap like you see on Times Sq.

 

Look at the faces!! Look at the communication between the two men, look at the tea set! It is the touch of the hand that speaks to me..even the somewhat "loose" treatment of the glaze on the back, to delineate the bench. I have no way of knowing if the person making this was serving as a robo-style factory production worker and would rather be employed by Nokia or whether someone put his/her heart & soul into it...but 

handmade to me implies touching that is visible, even to the most subtle degree, in the creative process and the end product.

 

I love flaws and foibles in clay work for that reason (I am not saying that craftsmanship should not be as fine as possible...those flaws that are deliberately allowed to live have to "work" in the piece). Machines, tools, technology are unavoidable, and a blessing to have at our disposal...to me, the question is whether they are being used in the service of the expression of the creation or are they being used solely to bypass the work of the hands, to eliminate the need for touch? If the latter, I don't think we get to call it handmade. If the former, then I think it is still "handmade". post-63409-0-53289300-1438308512_thumb.jpgpost-63409-0-31869600-1438308527_thumb.jpgpost-63409-0-71009900-1438308533_thumb.jpg

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I just got this little inexpensive handmade figurine from a hole-in-the-wall shop in Chinatown, NYC. The shop was Bok Lei Po trading, "The complete martial arts store."..an odd place to find clay work!  The owner had just a few of these items stuck away next to swords and such, stock leftover from the previous store when he bought it. He said handmade clay figures are on the way out, as a U.S. import...if they are made at all anymore, they will be plastic.  Made me sad...most of the other shops on Mott were already "plasticized" to death, selling the same crap like you see on Times Sq.

 

Look at the faces!! Look at the communication between the two men, look at the tea set! It is the touch of the hand that speaks to me..even the somewhat "loose" treatment of the glaze on the back, to delineate the bench. I have no way of knowing if the person making this was serving as a robo-style factory production worker and would rather be employed by Nokia or whether someone put his/her heart & soul into it...but 

handmade to me implies touching that is visible, even to the most subtle degree, in the creative process and the end product.

 

I love flaws and foibles in clay work for that reason (I am not saying that craftsmanship should not be as fine as possible...those flaws that are deliberately allowed to live have to "work" in the piece). Machines, tools, technology are unavoidable, and a blessing to have at our disposal...to me, the question is whether they are being used in the service of the expression of the creation or are they being used solely to bypass the work of the hands, to eliminate the need for touch? If the latter, I don't think we get to call it handmade. If the former, then I think it is still "handmade". attachicon.gif0725151132a.jpgattachicon.gif0725151133.jpgattachicon.gif0725151135.jpg

Oh, those are nice! The locks of hair! The little teapot! The faces! No wonder you fell in love :)

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For me, handmade is something unique. I consider some textile being handmade sometimes even though they were screenprinted, because I find the pattern to be unique. Or even woven cloth, made with a loom, I consider handmade.

When people think about handmade, there is always a distinction between true handmade (what you called Fine Art Handmade if I recall properly) and Basic Handmade.
I don't like this kind of distinction because it is handmade anyways and who are we to think our handmade is better than theirs? As long as someone put some though into it and made it themselves, with or without machines, I consider it is handmade. I think handmade is opposed to factory made, that is the difference to me. Whether you think jewellery made from store-bought things is handmade is another debate of what you consider worth it or no, but that's purely subjective.

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Ohhh goody, this is one of my favorite topics in the whole world. :D
 

So here we are today, where yarn is most time purchased already spun, clay already mixed, paints already prepped, glazes already mixed, jewelry bits to choose from and so much else available. Does the definition of handmade mean that the item starts from raw to finished, only the purest of the purists would say so. Does it start with a base material of some refinement and go to a finished piece? Most would agree it does. However, does that same footing yield commercial cast products, hand painted and fired as being the same? Most of us would think not, I believe.

 

I think in the long run, when the essence of the creation is hand created by the craftsperson/artist, then the piece is hand made. When either the form and the surface is created already, one cannot consider the piece. . . man-made.

 

This ^^
 

I like to see the process, I like that it will change into something else. That is why I don't like the hand made that is sweatshop hand made, because it doesn't change into anything else : it is formula. And I usually don't have emotions that run deep for factory made , because again it is made to catch my eye, to sell. It has no next stage. But real handmade does, the creator will get bored and start changing things, and that evolution is what I yearn for.only humans do it, and we have been doing it for thousands of years.we will do it with modern materials, but I prefer the less plastic because I like the serendipity of interplay between intention and unpredictability of the natural material. And how the creator will use the unpredictability to their advantage . I like the errors, the imperfections. I don't like poor craftsmanship, I see a lot of that. I don't like mismatched finishes, or the harsh plastic finishes applied to a natural surface.
Ceramics appeal to me because they can't be faked, the piece either holds up or it doesn't . So it has to be real, and there are perhaps a few shortcuts, but no giclees here, making many copies of an item, is probably almost the same amount of work as making each one individually, what w creating the mold, testing the slip, testing the glaze , making more molds, drying, really doesn't seem worth it.

And this ^^ 

I love it all! 
 

I feel a little embarrassed sometimes that I don't make my own glazes. But then I start thinking, well, am I going to dig my own clay? No, definitely not. Build my own kiln? Nope. I have just a little time to do this each week and if I made every single element I used in my work (though I do make many of my own tools and stamps) all my time would be preparing to work and none of it would be actually working. 

 

When I think about this subject, I always think of this: There used to be an absolutely fantastic bakery near here. Best bakery I've ever been to in my life and I don't say that lightly. Everything they made was amazing, the best of its' kind. I've had old-fashioned donuts lots of places but theirs were the best, a million times over. And guess what? They went through five-gallon buckets of fruit filling regularly. They did not make their own fruit or cream fillings, they were premade. Now, do I feel that if they had made their own raspberry jam, their own royal icing, etc., their products would have reached a whole new level of decadence? Sure! But as it was, they were amazing. Everything was made fresh every day, no exceptions. Day old food was bagged up half price and sold out by noon every day. I'm sure they had machines in the back to help them with making but their food had a special touch. The owner sold the bakery when he wanted to retire and the new owners continued making the same items with the same recipes in the same shop and yet nothing is the same. Even though it's still there (and mediocre) I think of it like it's gone because the HEART has gone out of the place. 

 

I have watched Etsy change beyond recognition in the last two years since they started allowing people to sell manufactured items that they may or may not have designed. This bothers me deeply, mostly because 95% of the people who are doing this are either falsely claiming to design the items, or truly designing items and allowing it to be sweatshop manufactured. Seeing a truly talented designer pair up with a responsible manufacturer to make their work more accessible to consumers doesn't bother me. But it really isn't handmade any more either and I don't feel it should be classified the same way. Some people suggested that Etsy should have a separate category for this kind of work but Etsy chose to include it along with all the truly handmade from scratch items. This kind of work is inexorably pushing the truly handmade from that marketplace. I personally feel that if a handmade business chooses to move in that direction, it's fine for them but there should be a separation of the two kinds of work and a commitment to being honest with the consumer about what they are actually purchasing from the artist. Did the artists' hands shape this plate, or was it cast from a mold by an anonymous factory worker? Did the designer or an employee under their direct supervision glaze this mug in their own studio, or was it done somewhere in Asia? It makes a difference in the finished item, no question. 

 

Frances Palmer is a great example. She had her Pearl Collection manufactured by a U.S company in limited editions. There was no pretending that the items manufactured this way were made by her. Plates that normally sold at $110 were now available for $40. Did she design them? Yes. Did she make the originals that were used to create molds? Yes. Did she oversee the process and stay involved with quality control? Yes, and yes. The way she handled it has my respect. 

 

Patat: re: extruded handles: what if a person uses a handmade extruder with a die that they designed and cut themselves? Does that change how you feel about it? Extruded handles don't bother me one way or the other since they still require skill to shape and attach. I'm truly not being snotty, I'm just honestly curious where the line is for you. What about when people use extruded coils to make baskets? 

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I'd love to see the following labels:

 

 

5. This pot was grown organically.

 

 

Ha haha :lol:

Love it, might want to clarify that a little ;) Potters are already a bit suspect...

 

Giselle:

It's just a personal taste thing because I've never had an extruder. I pull all my handles, so I tend to look at extruded handles the same way people who throw look at slip-cast. Honestly, I think extrusion is fine though. I was just trying to make the point that it's all just lines in the sand and knew a lot of people extrude handles. Thought I might touch a nerve. I often start thinking extrusion is great around my 15th mug :D  Especially here, where you're lucky to sell a mug for $10....

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I think for potters, "handmade" is a bit easier to define than in other art forms, because of the protean nature of clay.  Does the piece in question show the touch of the human hand in some tangible manner?  Is the nature of that touch unique to that piece?

 

If so, then the piece is handmade.

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I'd love to see the following labels:

 

 

5. This pot was grown organically.

 

 

Ha haha :lol:

Love it, might want to clarify that a little ;) Potters are already a bit suspect...

 

Giselle:

It's just a personal taste thing because I've never had an extruder. I pull all my handles, so I tend to look at extruded handles the same way people who throw look at slip-cast. Honestly, I think extrusion is fine though. I was just trying to make the point that it's all just lines in the sand and knew a lot of people extrude handles. Thought I might touch a nerve. I often start thinking extrusion is great around my 15th mug :D  Especially here, where you're lucky to sell a mug for $10....

 

 

Technically if I do start using shellac on my items I can't say they're vegan any more since shellac is made from beetles' shells. Also I'm not sure if the manufacturer uses organic beetles, they don't really tell you. I guess I'm going to have to start making my own shellac made from my own carefully raised organic beetles fed only home raised veggies. 

 

:D

 

I think any time you're using a machine of any kind, or mold made by someone else, or commercial glazes, you run the risk of making work that is indistinguishable from someone else's unless you do something to put your own stamp on it. No pun intended. I see an awful lot of handmade items that could be made by one of any dozen artists. I think that's a business mistake as well as an artistic one.

 

I don't extrude anything yet though I do plan to as soon as I get a die cut the way I want it. You didn't hit a nerve, I promise. 

 

To anybody who has never tried slip casting: It's a pain in the backside. Throwing is actually easier and much, much faster. I have a full set of dinnerware molds and platters but most of them I've used only one time, never again. The stinking teapot collapsed just to spite me, and even my first mug took me less time than casting those miserable teacups. And it has waaay more personality. 

 

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Technically if I do start using shellac on my items I can't say they're vegan any more since shellac is made from beetles' shells. Also I'm not sure if the manufacturer uses organic beetles, they don't really tell you. I guess I'm going to have to start making my own shellac made from my own carefully raised organic beetles fed only home raised veggies.

Shellac is produced by a tiny red insect. Swarms of the insects feed on certain Shellac trees, primarily in India and Thailand, known informally as lac trees. The lac bugs' life cycle is only six months, in which time they eat, propagate, and secrete the resin they've taken in from the tree to produce shellac. In certain seasons of the year, these insects swarm in huge numbers on the trees, settle on branches, and project protrusions into the tree to penetrate the bark. They suck up the sap and absorb it until they feed themselves to death (called the feast of death amongst the indigenous peoples). At this same time, propagation continues, with each female lac bug laying about 1,000 eggs before dying. The sap is chemically altered in the lac bug's body and is then exuded onto the tree branch. On contact with the air, the excretion forms a hard shell-like covering over the entire swarm. This covering forms a crust over the twig and insects. As the female lac bug is exuding the ingested sap she is preparing to die and is providing a fluid in which her eggs will mature under protection. The males' role is to fertilize the female, and it is after fertilization that the females' lac output is vastly increased. The adult males and females become inactive, and the young start to break through the crust and swarm out.

 

Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Shellac.html#ixzz3hnSJkIlz

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I was 100% joking about raising my own bugs. I promise. I was going along with the "organic pots" joke. 

 

But it is good to know that they don't have to kill the bugs to get shellac, I thought it was made from their shells or something.

No shells, just bug poo. And, I believe shellac is used in some food glazes. Eat hardy? But don't lick the brush.

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Yes this is a can of worms.  And I think it is especialy so when there many people out there working with molds to reproduce objects.

 

To me this is what I would consider.

Handmade Original  ---  is an object that the original artist produced from scratch using any combination of tools while still keeping the object original.  

Handmade Copy -- is an object that was made with the same method as the original and attempts to be as close to the original as humanly possible.

Reproduction -- is something that is a copy of the original but not produced from the original method.  Something like a slip molded copy of the original.

 

Now with Ceramics you also have the decorating so you can add the factor of it being

Hand Decorated or Commercially decorated.  

 

True there could be more worms to this as some may consider using commercial glazes as cheating on hand decorating,  or those that make a run of multi pieces that are dipped in the same glazes as more of commercial decorating method.  But unless we talk about legal definitions and copyright's or patents on everything we need some flexibility on these definitions.

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Hi everybody. I am very sorry I couldn't moderate this interesting thread of ideas, but in the Hotel in Germany the Internet was, well, non existent and in school we had zero time to open the laptop. I did a superduper masterclass with Marc Leuthold and Martin McWilliam. Very much "making by hand", carving, embedding, batting clay away after the firing and so on. I will write an article about the masterclass for the next Potters Pages (= Potters Council newsletter - if you are a Potters Council member, you will get your copy with the article in it)! Stay tuned!!

 

Thank you Marcia for taking over the moderation!

 

Evelyne

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