Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
terraforma

As a potter/ceramic artist, which IRS business code do you use for taxes?

Recommended Posts

The IRS asks us to choose a business code when we complete a business return. I've never been certain of which code is correct for what we do. I choose "independent artists, writers, and performers - 711510," but it doesn't seem precisely correct. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to describe myself as "clay product and refractory manufacturing - 327100" :rolleyes:

 

So, what do you choose?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JBaymore

The IRS asks us to choose a business code when we complete a business return. I've never been certain of which code is correct for what we do. I choose "independent artists, writers, and performers - 711510," but it doesn't seem precisely correct.

 

I have been using that same code "since god was a kid". It actually fits most studio ceramic artists OK, I think. (You have to look at the real nature of your actual business to decide if something else is more appropriate.)

 

_______________________________________________________

 

I am a proponent of changing to the "postcard" tax form. Single-sided postcard. It says "In the year XXXX I recieved $XXXXXXXXXXX from all wages, saleries, tips, business income, investments, etc. The tax I owe the US Government this year is XX% times $XXXXXXXXXXXX = $XXXXXXXX. Taxes with-held come to $XXXXXXXXX. Taxes owed come to $XXXXXXXX.

 

I am due a refund of $XXXXXXX.

 

I owe an additional $XXXXXXXX.

 

It'd take 10 minutes to fill out. Since everyone would be paying based upon all their income from all sources, the tax rate percentage likely would be kinda' low. People making at or below the official Federal Poverty Level would not have to pay any taxes. Unfortunately a lot of IRS employees would lose their jobs, because they would not be needed anymore,........ but that would help to cut the deficit.

_____________________________________________________________________

 

Then I woke up. wink.gif

 

best,

 

.....................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a proponent of changing to the "postcard" tax form. Single-sided postcard. It says "In the year XXXX I recieved $XXXXXXXXXXX from all wages, saleries, tips, business income, investments, etc.

 

 

John,

 

Your little imagined scenario caused me to run off into my own dream, pretending that all those X's were 9's!!!

 

:)

 

Maybe some day, hopefully before the year 9999 ;)

 

- Sam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The IRS asks us to choose a business code when we complete a business return. I've never been certain of which code is correct for what we do. I choose "independent artists, writers, and performers - 711510," but it doesn't seem precisely correct.

 

I have been using that same code "since god was a kid". It actually fits most studio ceramic artists OK, I think. (You have to look at the real nature of your actual business to decide if something else is more appropriate.)

 

_______________________________________________________

 

I am a proponent of changing to the "postcard" tax form. Single-sided postcard. It says "In the year XXXX I recieved $XXXXXXXXXXX from all wages, saleries, tips, business income, investments, etc. The tax I owe the US Government this year is XX% times $XXXXXXXXXXXX = $XXXXXXXX. Taxes with-held come to $XXXXXXXXX. Taxes owed come to $XXXXXXXX.

 

I am due a refund of $XXXXXXX.

 

I owe an additional $XXXXXXXX.

 

It'd take 10 minutes to fill out. Since everyone would be paying based upon all their income from all sources, the tax rate percentage likely would be kinda' low. People making at or below the official Federal Poverty Level would not have to pay any taxes. Unfortunately a lot of IRS employees would lose their jobs, because they would not be needed anymore,........ but that would help to cut the deficit.

_____________________________________________________________________

 

Then I woke up. wink.gif

 

best,

 

.....................john

 

That would rip through the economy like wildfire consuming all sorts of jobs. The fed employees first, then the tax preparers out there, then the tax preparation program programmers, the manufacturers, the book writers, the publishers, just to name a few. Oh but how much more fair, easy, and precise would it be. At the same time the lack of possible loopholes would probably entail a higher revenue without so much pain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The IRS asks us to choose a business code when we complete a business return. I've never been certain of which code is correct for what we do. I choose "independent artists, writers, and performers - 711510," but it doesn't seem precisely correct. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to describe myself as "clay product and refractory manufacturing - 327100" :rolleyes:

 

So, what do you choose?

 

 

Funny ... My hubby, the tax preparer, put me down as a 327100 but I prefer to think of myself as a 711510 ... Could be why I'm always fiscally challenged!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JBaymore
Funny ... My hubby, the tax preparer, put me down as a 327100 but I prefer to think of myself as a 711510 ... Could be why I'm always fiscally challenged!

 

Chris,

 

The 711510 code has a bit of an audit risk attached to it.... due to abuse history....... so that might be why he chose the other code for you.

 

best,

 

.................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of our problem as a "business sector" is that we are more likely to self-identify

in many different ways for government business. I had a potter call me a few years

ago. He had received a call from the "Dept of Labor" and statistician asked him if

he was the last of his kind! --that's cause you all identify as performers! Ugh!

 

I'm trying to get federal funding and open credit for studios and you are defeating me!

(and yourselves) No wonder the DOL/GOV thinks manufacturing and Made in the USA

is dead! For the sake of being counted (I know many of you don't care) we could really

see what OUR contribution really looks like if we got together on this issue. YOU are the

pioneers of urban revitalization and rural economic development. YOU are where new

jobs and new businesses are born. You call yourself a ceramic artist... they call

you "micro-manufacturer". Every job in the making sector, is equal to 2 1/2 in other

service sectors. We need you! It's really important for us to find the exact right codes

for SIC and NAICS

 

In a quick search I found potteries under "home furnishings, Giftware, a few, only a few are classified as pottery products.

 

If you want to compare your business classification to other similar studios

here's the link Manta Look up by comparable company or just search on

pottery, china or ceramic art... it's all a mess!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JBaymore

Wendy,

 

You put that word "manufacturing" into the lexicon in which you identify yourself, and you open up HUGE potential issues with the ability to have studios located at private homes based in anything other than industrial zoning locations. So using that IRS code could come back to haunt you if there is ever any issue with the town/city.

 

Most zoning allows "professional" uses and even home craft based ocupations ior artist's studios in residential districts. Most residential districts specifically BAN manufacturing of any kind.

 

Many of us have spent a lot of time making sure that we are NOT identified as "manufacturing" in any way.

 

If you want to help, get them to create a category that is actually what we really are........ not cram us into an existing category that is NOT really what we do. How about simply "artist" as a seperate category from the "performers" characterization?

 

That 711510 code already covers EXACTLY what we do; independent artist.

 

best,

 

.............john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this is an old post, but it's the most relative one to my search.  I've determined that 'Industrial Designer' is more accurate than either "artist" or "manufacturer" when it comes to being a potter.   After all, we ARE designing a "product", aren't we ?   Well, I guess, in my case, that is what I'm doing, but perhaps a ceramic sculptor should fall under artist.  I am a maker of utilitarian / functional ceramic work, so I'm going with product design/industrial design. 

 

Thoughts ?   Since the IRS uses this code for statistical reasons, it would be interesting to know how many potters have defined themselves as artists and how many otherwise.  

 

 

Lori Hess

www.claybirdpotterystudio.com

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JBaymore

I subscribe to the Japanese approach.  I do not separate "craft" from "art".  It is all art.

 

best,

 

.....................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always used the independent artist category because I do a variety of things, painting, photography, pottery, written several books, graphic art services, etc... But I do NOT sing or perform, my dogs howl even when I hum and a dozen broken bones is proof enough I am a clutz and should keep both feet seperate and on the ground at all times. Lol I guess I might actually be the poster child for this government category.

 

T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you considering the purpose of these codes?  The NAICS code will determine which data base your Schedule C will be compared to in order to determine if your income and expense amounts fall within the “normal range†for that business, profession or industry, in the event of an audit.   I know some numbers may flag  a return for an audit.   From what I understand, there would be no  penalty for classifying but in the "artists, writers and performers" class, you can guess that line items like COGS and utilities would be comparatively low to most potters.   Example ... would  a utility/income ratio of 5% be in the "normal  range" for most "artists, writers and performers"?  Probably not.  I know of a  gift business that had a 90% COGS/sales ratio and got nailed in a sales tax audit (auditor said it indicated "unreported taxable cash income").   You can explain  variances from the norm and I'm guessing that the category of "artists, writers and performers" have more variances.   When I had those shoe/accessory stores, I know our accountant compared our reports to the industry average on line item expenses.  One year we had a large purchase of shopping bags and he pointed out this raised the supplies ratio but not to worry.  He said "you don't have to explain why you purchased so many just have to provide the documentation that you did".

 

I can totally understand why most accountants would select 327100.    I do recall my accountant saying we had to use a code where inventory was part of the business.  Googling I found this:

 

http://www.potters.org/subject20061.htm

 

I found this to be a very insightful read.  Particularly the long post from the CPA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also have used the 711510 since god was a kid as John said.-Its the closest match for me. 

Tax codes are not exact fits for all just get close to whatever-711510 is close enough for my account to have used it since beginning of time or at least when I started selling pottery which feels like 250 years BC when I stand up now.

If you get this code wrong do not worry they send out marshalls and cuff and stuff you and cook you under hot lights until all the numbers blend into one. When you crack you may yell 711510 and then they drive you home.

Mark

LeeU and Stephen like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JBaymore

Bonnie knows what she is talking about in the old CLAYART thread.  She's been sharing her thoughts with folks for a long time.  Great lady.

 

best,

 

......................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.