How Much Do You Sell Your Mugs For?

[teardrop]

teardrop, the plus and minus buttons on every post are there for a reason. Not everyone feels comfortable posting on forums, in fact most people just read and don't post. Having an anonymous way to express approval or disapproval lets them record their thoughts in a small way.

 

I hear ya. Truly I do. Every forum has the same dynamics...give or take a bit here and there.

 

On the flipside, is it fair to those folks who DO feel comfortable enough (with themselves) to post and >who make the forum what it is< via that content to be "graded" by those who do not post at all/who do nothing to perpetuate the conversation here??

 

What is so ironic to me is that the red marks actually say more about the person giving them than the person recieving them.

 

If such a system is to exist at all, I think it's a shame that these marks aren't tracked/attributed to those folks who gave them. If there was some sort of responsibility >behind< the critique given it would have at least >some, meaning!

 

As anonomous critique, it says nothing and points out even less.

 

sorry for the hijack, phill.

 

teardrop

[Pres]

 

 

Pottery Pricing Breakdown
weight of clay + hours+(firing x2)+glaze materials = cost
cost x 1.5 = wholesale
wholesale x 2 = retail

Currently my clay prices are $40.95 per box. Each box weighs 40lbs which is 18.1kilograms.

100 g of wet clay = $.22
1hr of work = $12.50
each firing = $1.00 per piece
Glaze = 1/5 of total clay/ 100g of clay = 20g of glaze
100g of glaze = $1.00

EXAMPLES

Materials:
1 Decorated Mug = 600g of wet clay = $1.33 + 120g of glaze = $2.53

Time:
firing =$1.00
making +glazing hours = 1.5hrs each mug = $18.75

total = $22.28 cost (recovered costs but no profit)
= 44.56 at 200%markup
= 33.42 at 150% markup

I do not agree with using a mathematical formula to figure out the price of pottery. Yes, you need to take into account your costs, but mostly I think it's about the quality of the work and the market value. My main issue is with using 'time' as part of the formula. All other things being equal (material costs, quality, etc.) should someone charge more for their pots just because they work slower? Try explaining that to a customer. I also don't consider my time as a cost. My time is what I'm being paid for. The costs are the materials, overhead, etc. It's different if you're paying someone to do the work for you, of course. Instead, I would calculate your hourly wage as the sale price minus your costs divided by your time. There's your true hourly profits. Want to increase profits? Work faster, sell more.


I've had this argument before, years ago. A woman, fellow potter, came to my booth and said my work was underpriced. I asked her how many mugs she could throw in an hr. I was able to tell her that I was throwing 5 more than her per hr. I asked how long that she figured it took her to trim and handle that hr of work. I was able to do mine in 3/4 the time. Then I asked how long it took to wax and glaze the work for firing, again less time for me. My final question was am I underpriced-she just sputtered. Now, I find that I am taking more time to complete the mugs as back then, I take a little more care in shaping as my forms have become a little more complex, I also take a little more time in finishing the bottoms and signing, I also take a little more time with the glazing as I don't allow the heavy drips as in old, and I take a little more time in cleaning the bottoms in the fired ware. I charge more than 10 years ago, but most of that is probably eaten up by inflation-something we all need to take into account as time goes on, and another reason for a mathematical approach.

[phill]

 

I've had this argument before, years ago. A woman, fellow potter, came to my booth and said my work was underpriced. I asked her how many mugs she could throw in and hr. I was able to tell her that I was throwing 5 more than her per hr. I asked how long that she figured it took her to trim and handle that hr of work. I was able to do mine in 3/4 the time. Then I asked how long it took to wax and glaze the work for firing, again less time for me. My final question was am I underprice-she just sputtered. Now, I find that I am taking more time to complete the mugs as back then, I take a little more care in shaping as my forms have become a little more complex, I also take a little more time in finishing the bottoms and signing, I also take a little more time with the glazing as I don't allow the heavy drips as in old, and I take a little more time in cleaning the bottoms in the fired ware. I charge more than 10 years ago, but most of that is probably eaten up by inflation-something we all need to take into account as time goes on, and another reason for a mathematical approach.

 

 

interesting comment pres. i find that the most important factor in pricing comes down to my eye for meaningful work. i just saw a Svend Bayer video last night and couldn't agree more with him when he said that making nice pots has nothing to do with the technique and craftsmanship. have you considered this aspect?

 

respectfully,

phill

 

teardrop-- thanks for standing up for me. i enjoy forums when there are a lot of differences being openly expressed.

[Mark C.]

I was not aware of what the plus or minus buttons meant or where for-I'm still unclear why we would need them?

If I do not agree with POST no matter -thats life no need for me to minus them-I make the assumption that in life many times we agree to disagree

 

I will add that I'm a moderator on two other sites ( not clay related) and I had never seen this system on any site

I'm ok with it just do not relate to it-I does not apply to me.

I think those with minus marks may have the right stuff as they have opinions.

Teardrop hit it on the head

(As anonomous critique, it says nothing and points out even less.)

Mark

[Pres]

I've had this argument before, years ago. A woman, fellow potter, came to my booth and said my work was underpriced. I asked her how many mugs she could throw in and hr. I was able to tell her that I was throwing 5 more than her per hr. I asked how long that she figured it took her to trim and handle that hr of work. I was able to do mine in 3/4 the time. Then I asked how long it took to wax and glaze the work for firing, again less time for me. My final question was am I underprice-she just sputtered. Now, I find that I am taking more time to complete the mugs as back then, I take a little more care in shaping as my forms have become a little more complex, I also take a little more time in finishing the bottoms and signing, I also take a little more time with the glazing as I don't allow the heavy drips as in old, and I take a little more time in cleaning the bottoms in the fired ware. I charge more than 10 years ago, but most of that is probably eaten up by inflation-something we all need to take into account as time goes on, and another reason for a mathematical approach.

 

 

interesting comment pres. i find that the most important factor in pricing comes down to my eye for meaningful work. i just saw a Svend Bayer video last night and couldn't agree more with him when he said that making nice pots has nothing to do with the technique and craftsmanship. have you considered this aspect?

 

respectfully,

phill

 

teardrop-- thanks for standing up for me. i enjoy forums when there are a lot of differences being openly expressed.

 

 

Quite often in fact. I have often wondered about the piece that stands hand and shoulders above all of the others. It is basically the same form, the same colors, same decoration and handles as the others, but for some reason it stands out as being superior. The problem is, do I price it higher because I believe it to be better-as if it were a One-in-a-Thousand Winchester rifle, or do I price it like all of the rest? Or even sell it at all. In the end I sell it at the same price as all of the others because it is my sense of aesthetic being pleased, not the purchaser. Do the sell faster than their brothers-No, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are selling your pottery for a price you require and you are satisfied with it then by all means do so. Myself, as I am always insecure in my pricing choose to use some formulae to help me arrive at a solution that works for me-at least minimally, and if I need to add a little more for my own ego, I do so.

[Mark C.]

Pres said

 

(Quite often in fact. I have often wondered about the piece that stands hand and shoulders above all of the others. It is basically the same form, the same colors, same decoration and handles as the others, but for some reason it stands out as being superior. The problem is, do I price it higher because I believe it to be better-as if it were a One-in-a-ThousandWinchester rifle, or do I price it like all of the rest? Or even sell it at all. In the end I sell it at the same price as all of the others because it is my sense of aesthetic being pleased, not the purchaser. Do the sell faster than their brothers-No, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are selling your pottery for a price you require and you are satisfied with it then by all means do so. Myself, as I am always insecure in my pricing choose to use some formulae to help me arrive at a solution that works for me-at least minimally, and if I need to add a little more for my own ego, I do so. )

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I learned long ago that there is NO accounting for taste

Pricing for me is my least fav part but I agree if the piece jumps out and for me thats a spectacular reduction glaze piece I will charge more for for those pieces are so rare and if it sits for awhile I do not care.Those pieces bring in the customers to see it and helps sell the other work

For whatever reason I do not price up small stuff no matter how spectacular it looks

The exception for that is reds-they always cost more

Mark

[Pres]

Pres said

 

(Quite often in fact. I have often wondered about the piece that stands hand and shoulders above all of the others. It is basically the same form, the same colors, same decoration and handles as the others, but for some reason it stands out as being superior. The problem is, do I price it higher because I believe it to be better-as if it were a One-in-a-ThousandWinchester rifle, or do I price it like all of the rest? Or even sell it at all. In the end I sell it at the same price as all of the others because it is my sense of aesthetic being pleased, not the purchaser. Do the sell faster than their brothers-No, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are selling your pottery for a price you require and you are satisfied with it then by all means do so. Myself, as I am always insecure in my pricing choose to use some formulae to help me arrive at a solution that works for me-at least minimally, and if I need to add a little more for my own ego, I do so. )

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I learned long ago that there is NO accounting for taste

Pricing for me is my least fav part but I agree if the piece jumps out and for me thats a spectacular reduction glaze piece I will charge more for for those pieces are so rare and if it sits for awhile I do not care.Those pieces bring in the customers to see it and helps sell the other work

For whatever reason I do not price up small stuff no matter how spectacular it looks

The exception for that is reds-they always cost more

Mark

 

 

I can certainly understand the instinct to raise the price on a reduction red, knowing what it takes to get them. I have often wondered about the buyer out there that buys a copper red reduction piece knowing nothing about the process only knowing that they like the color. As we say-eye of the beholder. I too will raise the price of a larger piece that is to me more spectacular. It does not really have to be reduction, just that the glaze and the technique so well defines the pot that is stands above the rest. These pieces sell easily even though they are priced higher.

[phill]

...if I need to add a little more for my own ego, I do so.

 

 

awesome! i love this quote.

[Redstreak]

.....

[trina]

Hello Fellow Potters,

 

I've just joined this site and feel the need to post to this thread.

I'm not a production potter, but only a part-time potter, handbuilt teacher, and the one who keeps the family and household running smoothly.

Presently, I don't have a website and only share my work online with family, friends and friends of friends.

Yes, I'm only a bit player in the large scheme of things with MUCH to learn, but I'm happy with doing only a few shows a year and selling to my riding friends (dirt, sport & sport-touring motorcycles) and family.

 

I always carry my beloved personal mug on my bike, in my tank bag when doing cross-country, solo rides and I keep it in my car to refill at coffee shops.

Never have I entered a shop without the mug being highly complimented and often being asked if I had them for sale. My point is - it is clear that my work has value to others.

 

So... sorry about the wordiness, but it was to get to this point - I sell my mugs at $26. for a normally large size and $30. for the largest size. (The rare small ones range from $20.-$24.) The handles are all pulled on the pot and rarely are straight (and I LIKE this!). Various small details mark the pots. Glazing is by brush, with multiple glazes used to achieve rich results.

 

At a sculpture show last weekend, I sold quite a few pieces of pottery. One woman came to my booth and checked out all my mugs, choosing one to fit her. She was also a potter, but only works in tile. We talked about how we work, me - slowly, she - very quickly. She showed me a photo of her work and it was clear that it was in great contrast to my work. To each her own. Then she asked the price of the beautiful, gorgeously glazed mug in her hand. $30. I said. She looked at me shocked and I said, but as a potter, how about $26. She reluctantly agreed to the price and rudely said something to the effect of "now how am I going to explain this price to the other potters?".

 

Frankly, if I had been able to feel out her attitude sooner, I might have raised the price simply to avoid selling to her. She walked away with the mug, unwrapped. Later, on my way to eat, she smiled and waved and said that everyone wanted to see her mug and to handle it. THIS is exactly what I want my pots to exude - a beauty and spirit that makes one want to touch them. I just smiled and walked away, thinking that perhaps she might have gained some understanding of why I don't do production pottery, why my mugs are all different from each other, and why I sell at the prices I post - I'm worth it!

 

I firmly believe that many well-made pots are priced too low, discounting their value. When teaching my students and instructing them in their coiled mug project, I explain that they should always produce pieces that are original, that reflect a handmade quality and that have little in common with what can be purchased at WalMart. (Production potters, please don't take offense as you all work in HUGE quantities which necessitates more uniformity.)

 

In traveling across the US and Canada by bike, I very often stop in shops to peruse the pottery and gauge prices. There have been times when I've been utterly shocked that the potter had the nerve to sell such terribly made and pedestrian pieces and that people were buying them, ignorant to quality and artistic beauty! Then there are the more frequent times when I look at the pieces in absolute awe at the fantastic talent and work that went into producing the beauty before me, hoping that someday I might be half as good an artist/potter!

 

In closing, selling beautiful, high-quality pots at very low prices hurts all of us and devalues our work and the love and appreciation of handmade pieces.

 

[trina]

opps lost my post.... ummm will try again, sorry.. t

[Pres]

Pres said

 

(Quite often in fact. I have often wondered about the piece that stands hand and shoulders above all of the others. It is basically the same form, the same colors, same decoration and handles as the others, but for some reason it stands out as being superior. The problem is, do I price it higher because I believe it to be better-as if it were a One-in-a-ThousandWinchester rifle, or do I price it like all of the rest? Or even sell it at all. In the end I sell it at the same price as all of the others because it is my sense of aesthetic being pleased, not the purchaser. Do the sell faster than their brothers-No, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are selling your pottery for a price you require and you are satisfied with it then by all means do so. Myself, as I am always insecure in my pricing choose to use some formulae to help me arrive at a solution that works for me-at least minimally, and if I need to add a little more for my own ego, I do so. )

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I learned long ago that there is NO accounting for taste

Pricing for me is my least fav part but I agree if the piece jumps out and for me thats a spectacular reduction glaze piece I will charge more for for those pieces are so rare and if it sits for awhile I do not care.Those pieces bring in the customers to see it and helps sell the other work

For whatever reason I do not price up small stuff no matter how spectacular it looks

The exception for that is reds-they always cost more

Mark

 

 

I can certainly understand the instinct to raise the price on a reduction red, knowing what it takes to get them. I have often wondered about the buyer out there that buys a copper red reduction piece knowing nothing about the process only knowing that they like the color. As we say-eye of the beholder. I too will raise the price of a larger piece that is to me more spectacular. It does not really have to be reduction, just that the glaze and the technique so well defines the pot that is stands above the rest. These pieces sell easily even though they are priced higher.

 

 

I bought a small one piece goblet form this weekend. It was beautifully glazed, reduction fired stoneware, it has a lavender glaze with white. The stem is thrown on the goblet with a strong flat base, carved faceting accents the stem and base transition. It only stands about 5 inches tall, and is about 2 inches in diameter. I paid $45 dollars for it, it is wonderful and I love feeling it. I could have thrown it and come close to glazing it, but then it would only be one of mine. I prefer to have it by the original potter, as it is Cynthia Bringle. I wanted a piece from her, and even though it is not indicative of all she does, I have admired her goblet/chalice forms for over 20 years. this one I could afford.

[Guest JBaymore]

Relative to approaching pricing, is what we make a "commodity" or "art work"?

 

best,

 

...............john

[phill]

Relative to approaching pricing, is what we make a "commodity" or "art work"?

 

best,

 

...............john

 

 

can it be both?

[Dinah]

No seconds. Ever. Good mantra to tattoo on forehead backwards so you see it in the mirror!

 

Anecdotal evidence here: My mentee recently had a local sale in a modest venue all crafts. I encouraged her to put up a 8 x 11 -- letter-sized menu holder -- info sheet about herself, and the work. Asked her to check with organizers as to what they expected and there were no objections. I told her that I was not a huge fan of baskets and scarves to stage the pots as she did initially describe what she wanted to do -- on a 4' x 6' table. Suggested business cards with Sales Desk and on her table too; as she was not able to remain with her work the entire weekend, but did stay for the Opening Reception which I encouraged. Make up a detailed Inventory sheet with thumbnail images to help sales people. Last night, in our weekly chat, she reported that she outsold all the more established potters in her region who exhibited at the show, and she has been asked to return next year by the organizers. There's a combination of pricing and presence which is unbeatable. If you've got An Agent who is pricing and flogging your work which is predicated on a carefully honed reputation, good for you. But a majority of folks reading this are just like me. We stand by our work and say hello. If the price point is too high, we readjust it for next week.

[teardrop]

Hello Fellow Potters,

 

I've just joined this site and feel the need to post to this thread.

 

 

 

That's one very honest post, IMO.

 

So then....does anyone have any idea why this person took the time to say in their profile that they didn't feel welcome here AFTER ONE POST?

[phill]

Hello Fellow Potters,

 

I've just joined this site and feel the need to post to this thread.

 

 

 

That's one very honest post, IMO.

 

So then....does anyone have any idea why this person took the time to say in their profile that they didn't feel welcome here AFTER ONE POST?

 

 

i don't understand what you're talking about

[teardrop]

i don't understand what you're talking about

 

 

phill....

 

I went to this person's profile page and this was the comment they left there after making one post.

 

"Sign me a potter who had thought that this was a community worth joining, only to find that new members have zero value"

 

I saw no above board comments that would warrant such a response....so it just made me wonder "why".

 

jus' sayin'....

 

teardrop

[Prokopp]

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.

People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.

I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

[trina]

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.

People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.

I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

 

 

 

You are LOVED! T

[phill]

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.

People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.

I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

 

 

Sorry you feel that way. I am sure I have contributed to that. I apologize and hope you will forgive any actions that have been offensive in an exclusive manner. Hi Prokopp. My name is Phill and I am a potter from Minnesota and I am temporarily living in Boston MA. Nice to meet you and glad you are posting.

 

PS - This is post #100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pres]

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.

People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.

I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

 

 

Strange, but I have never felt ignored or treated snobby or unfriendly here. I really don't have a thick skin or am over tolerant, really quite insecure, so I find it difficult to believe that you feel that there is an unfriendly stuck up attitude here. Stick around, it is worth staying for since as you say you learn an immense amount from the post of so many others here.

[TJR]

I am new to the forum as well. I do not feel intimidated and I am really enjoying the conversation. In the short time I have been posting, I have met some great people[electronically]. Sometimes I say things that I think may be taken the wrong way, so lately I have been careful not to offend. I also am aware that I have a lot of experience in ceramics and try to help others less experienced. I feel that there are not any dumb questions, but sometimes I am amazed at the length of time people will spend to help others. I find this uplifting. Sometimes I put things out there and don't get a response, but I don't get offended by this. I wish I could figure out a simple way to post images as this would help me with my posts.

TJR.

[teardrop]

heya TJR....

 

What is happening when you try to upload pics? Is there an error message/problem with yer photo....or is it the overall process of how to upload you don't understand?

 

would love to help ya figure it out if possible as I know more about computers than ceramics....LOL:lol:

 

teardrop

[Dinah]

I think it's interesting to read through a series of posts on a thread. Sometimes I feel able to jump in; mostly not if I've read some good responses and solid solutions. I should be more proactive in giving these replies a + sign for encouragement. I think that's what it's for....

 

Feelings are tricksy areas to parse in online discussions. No one ever wins an argument. No one. You've posted a strong opinion, there's no body-language to read. Also not even in real time. Tricksy. I tend to shy away from I.M.A. Ranter. I'm here on a Tuesday night which is unusual for me as I try to limit my time here to Sunday afternoons.

 

TJR would you consider becoming a Mentor in the Potters Council Mentoring program. Some folks are keen to have some 1 2 1 chat phone or online. I've been helping match folks up. And any others of you out there would you please consider as well? Check it out. Contact Carolyn Dorr for any questions on signing up. She's in the main PC office in Ohio. Stop by the Potters Council Booth in Seattle, if you're attending. I'd be happy to chat about all sorts of stuff.

 

I'm sorry that some folks who don't give this forum more of a chance, loudly proclaim their irritation in flame mode. Not cool at all, but then again we all get our dander up. There are sooo many folks in PC. Someone will help you. Stick around. Get the feel of the place. Sometimes you've got to read/acknowledge snobby as a potter who has spent a long time developing and honing their skills and contacts. They do speak a different language from Newbies. Fact. Sometimes irritation leaks through when yet another basic question is posted about an easily avoidable disaster. Like not placing witness cones packs (oops I forgot to do this, is it important?)in each and every firing top to bottom so you can understand the heatwork in your kiln, and not rely on the digital reader. Look at the current Ceramics Monthly April 2012 backcover advert for Skutt kilns. How many witness cones did you count in Tom Turner's kiln? And I dare say he's been firing kilns since snakes could walk.